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HelicopterOff Topics › quickworldwide
09-02-2003 02:49 PM  14 years agoPost 21
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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I found the best idea was not to buy or go any where near QWW .If you want some good after market upgrades try QUICK UK you will not find any thing better.

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10-01-2003 02:28 PM  14 years agoPost 22
wolfdad

rrKey Veteran

Southern Maryland

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I'll add my two cents worth to the overwhelming din of negative publicity for QWW and Mr. Siner. First, allow me to freely admit that I have been "Irwinized" via a Quick 30 (upgraded to a 46) and a Quick 60 Pro (yeah, I know guys, once is a mistake, twice is a habit) and I DO have one good thing to say about QWW....they have the fastest credit card processing system in the universe.....the vacuum produced by the rapidity with which money is sucked out of your account when the order button is pushed is incredible.

Now, I am not an engineer, so I can't tell you how many years of engineering experience I have (unless you count being a P-3 Flight Engineer), however I can tell you what my own two eyes have seen in QWW merchandise, tempered with my 15 years plus as a Naval Aviation Maintenance Officer and a liberal dose of common sense.

First and foremost and this probably should be a major "show-stopper" as far as product liability goes are the instuctions QWW provides with their kits. They are horrendous, even for an experienced heli builder. First of all, they don't provide paper instructions (or didn't when I bought my kits). You get a CD with the instructions on it, but no way of knowing when or if they have been updated. Of course, you must have or get Adobe Acrobat to read the damned things. Then, I decided to print them out. Once printed, the pics are in black and white and almost illegible. A couple of examples where the instructions fall way short.....on the Quick 30, in the rigging section, they talk about "Hiller arms." Ok, ok so all of you are helicopter historians....right? Wrong! Who the hell knows what a Hiller arm is? I happen to because I have been eating and breathing helicopters since I was a kid and Larry Bell is still one of my heroes, however a young person purchasing what we all recommend....a 30 kit and buying a Quick 30 (succumbed to "Irwinization") would have no friggin' idea what a "Hiller arm" is or was. There were other HUGE gaps of info in the instructions as well. On the Quick 60 Pro, can anyone show me where the instuctions indicate the steps for installation of the"T" control arm stand-offs or did I just win a lot of $$$$$ by guessing correctly? And, prior to Irwin dodging the bullet by putting a statement toward the end of the instructions in the setup section (which, by the way is absolutely the worst setup guidelines I have ever seen) regarding the pitch slider being able to come in contact with the slider arm bracket, I found out the hard way when my 30 experienced a catastophic tail failure.

Two more items to think about that have managed to piss me off about the way QWW puts their kits together. I guess I have been spoiled by the JR American Dream. I have assembled about 6 of the JR kits and have never had to put the lining into the clutch bell....not even once. JR came up with the novel idea of installing the clutch lining into the bell prior to kitting the helicopter. I thought it was odd when I had to JB weld (according to instructions) the clutch lining into the clutch bell but I figured oh well, se la vie. However, when I received my Quick 60 Pro kit and had to do it again, after several more JR and other kits were behind me in the building stage, I just put one more mark on the wall in the "con" column for QWW. Not only that, but you damn well better check the run-out on a QWW clutch assembly...even if you blow this off building other kits. Initially, in both kits, run-out was extremely excessive, however I managed to get it down to less than .005, but not even close to the .002 recommended. Last, but certainly not least, with the Quick 30, I received two flybar control arms that were absolutely the nastiest pieces of anodizing work I had ever seen in my 54 years on this planet. I immediately contacted QWW (local pool hall) and was told that "yes, we have been having problems with that supplier, but it's getting better." (end of conversation). When I asked about replacement arms, I got the "and, you want us to replace them?" And, when I replied in the affirmative, they sounded like I had just landed from the planet.....nowayassholio. Two months later (to the day), I received the replacements (took almost as long to get the replacement "T" control arms for my Q60 due to bad bearings) and the anodizing was even worse on the replacements (looked like they had been in a cat's litterbox for about 6 months), however I looked at the mangled wreckage over on the other bench (catastrophic tail rotor failure mentioned above), shrugged and continued building my next Vigor. Oh, and I was charged full retail plus shipping for both replacement items.

On service after the sale, one word works here......DON'T. Don't buy in the first place and this will not be a concern. I have called QWW one time (first and last) and I thought I had the wrong number and had dialed into one of the Philadelphia pool halls....at least that's how it sounded in the background while I waited for almost 10 minutes to talk to someone.

I suspect that Irwin has purchased several defunct model heli companies including TSK and is trying to put together a proverbial frankenstein R/C heli company. Slick advertising, good website building, a cheap product, poor after-sale service and a fast credit card processing service all meld into a profitable business. The "all metal" slant on model heli advertising is catchy (caught me anyway) and just seems right, at first. Then you start thinking and you (for me this thought came a little late) realize that metal=weight and weight in heli's is not our best buddy (compare the weight of a Vigor 60 and a Quick 60 Pro....we're talking truck scale here), especially when the light at the end of the tunnel (not a night targeting system, either) for composites has come on all at once and we have things like carbon fibre and other neat "weigh-less" composites to choose from. So, metal slips down low on the choice list and the advertising makes less than common sense, however, as I said a few paragraphs ago, that thought came late for me.

Bottomline....this writer thinks you can do a lot better with your $$$.

wolfdad sends....

"There are those who have...and, those who will" IRCHA #2117, AMA #70068, Turbine Waiver #105

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10-01-2003 02:33 PM  14 years agoPost 23
wolfdad

rrKey Veteran

Southern Maryland

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I really don't respond to myself, however I forgot to include one last item and a question in my last reply.

On the Quick 60 Pro, I came across something on the head I have never seen before and that is a "multiplier arm." If someone out there is familiar with this on the Quick kit and can provide an explanation for what the hell it does, I would be most appreciative. This is not necessarily negative (I am willing to bet it will be before it's over), however I have no ideal what a "multiplier arm" is supposed to do...I am sure compensate for something that has been corrected in other manufacturer's kits, however I have no earthly idea what. Sure looks neat and, of course, it is "all metal."

wolfdad sends......again

"There are those who have...and, those who will" IRCHA #2117, AMA #70068, Turbine Waiver #105

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10-24-2003 11:23 PM  14 years agoPost 24
Steve Marks

rrNovice

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QWW Head

I purchased one of their heads it was about £100 and complete with blade grips, centre block and closed loop flybar. Its been great for me doing light 3d and circuits. Not tried the tail as they have none in stock and are not stocking them according to the guy a QWW UK.

Cant knock the head I think its great for the money and I have burnt loads of fuel.

Happy rotations.

Steve

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10-24-2003 11:33 PM  14 years agoPost 25
Frequency47

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Port Ewen, NY

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Hi Steve

I don't know if you have read all the threads concerning QWW and Quick UK. These are two different companies with two separate work and quality ethics.

I have the QWW tail upgrade as you can see from the threads above, they have the right idea but it seems as if they always stop short of the final product. I mean they don't really improve anything besides giving you a shiny piece of aluminum. It is an improvement over the Thunder Tiger Stuff. I don't trust plastic.

Be careful and read about what you are buying. Buy the Quick UK stuff and you will be fine. Thier only problem is they never have what you need in stock unless you go to heli proz or GR8 lakes hobbies or the like.

I have mine working now with a lot of rework involved.

Me

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.

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10-25-2003 01:18 AM  14 years agoPost 26
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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Take it from me you do not want the QWW tail upgrade. I even phoned to see if what I had done was right to have that sort of play I was told to lock tight the bearings in . Well like a mug did what they said to do took the heli down for a flight . It got 6 feet in the air in a hover then the tail just fell apart it first lost a complete blade holder with blade then just went on to beat it's self to death I got the heli down in one bit . They gave me my money back for the tail and head said they where sorry. They no longer sell the tail unit's in the UK. Send me your e mail AD and I will send photos of it .I am told that a company called http://www/tdgheli.com are doing a tail unit now I have not seen it but told it is better than QWW gear well you can not get any worse. But if you want good gear Quick UK is the place talk to Bud at Quickuk@aol.com . I have had a complete head and swashplate the lot it has had 13 gallon's and not a sign of wear you might want to put rates in as well with this head.

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10-25-2003 01:36 AM  14 years agoPost 27
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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By the way this is what Irwin thinks of us customers. This E mail was sent to one of his QWW dealers. Don't ask how I got hold of it


There are many reason why you are getting complaints. The main reason for the problems is that your customers do not know how to assemble the heads & tail properly. We have the total resources if there was a problem to fix, repair & replace any part that we make. We are professional & we have been doing this for 16+ years. We are engineers & world class machinists. We stand behind every thing we make. No exceptions.

You guys are like too babes in woods. If you do not know your market & your products & see that our designs are the highest quality & best performing products in the industry. Then I seriously suggest you get out of the business.

Maybe you are just too green & do not understand business. It is crisis management every day dealing with headaches & customers that are also a little too green with lack of experience in modeling.

Just by having the belts too tight the bearing can fail after one or two flight causing the tail output shaft to go off center. How about OH I forgot the locktite....

These are machined parts basically all the same..why is one great & another fails....they would all fail...if one fails. The rest is in the hands of the builder..

If you want our EP heli I need a answer directly.

Sincerely,

Irwin

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10-25-2003 10:48 AM  14 years agoPost 28
Al Magaloff

rrMaster

12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

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Irwin is a "world class" POS. Quick World Wide stuff is garbage. Tell all your friends.

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10-29-2003 09:59 PM  14 years agoPost 29
Steve Campbell

rrElite Veteran

Baton Rouge, LA

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wolfdad;

I was in tears (of mirth) at the end of your post. It is no laughing matter; but you so eloquently wrote what many have experienced.

It hurts my heart to see guys like you continually having to find out, the hard way, what this company is all about. Guys like you are why I have continued to stick my neck out on this issue, even while knowing I would be better off just going about my business. If we can save just one...


.

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10-29-2003 10:47 PM  14 years agoPost 30
Frequency47

rrVeteran

Port Ewen, NY

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For what it's worth

I agree that it has a lot to do with a modelers attention to detail. In my case however, if QWW had just given a bit more attention to the tail pitch control arms and hub it would be a smashing piece of machinery to add on to your chopper.

I have seen and am now waiting for an upgrade for the upgrade. I have purchased a tail rotor pitch arm (by Maverick) and a hub (Quick UK) and hope to solve the slopiness once and for all.

Hey nobody is perfect, and this is still a hobby. But it would help if everyone in the RC Heli world had thier heads on. But what are ya gonna do?

I am still not happy with my rappy. Maybe it was because it's a V!, or maybe because it was used when I baught it. But I would recommend that instead of buying a bird that is cheap, buy the one you dont need to purchase upgrades for, like a Bergen or X-Cell. At the end of the season with the cost of uprades and frustrations you would own a one of these for the cost of a Rappy with ugrades.

Oh yeah, don't buy used either.

Ed

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.

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10-30-2003 03:35 PM  14 years agoPost 31
gordon

rrApprentice

Isle of Wight UK

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If you don't like the V1 don't buy the V2 it will make you cry

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10-30-2003 05:41 PM  14 years agoPost 32
Rawlie

rrApprentice

JHB

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Irwin's emails

I was absolutely flabbergasted by Irwin's emails to and about customers .... and I have only one thing to say about their view of the clients and their product problems:

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HelicopterOff Topics › quickworldwide
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