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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › Does God Exist?
10-20-2009 12:00 AM  8 years agoPost 461
STR8HUCKIN

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lodi ca

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LOL

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10-20-2009 12:10 AM  8 years agoPost 462
Dennis (RIP)

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GimbalFan
That's an easy-to-recognise example of the power of the human imagination.
Imagination and Faith are 2 separate subjects. Thats not the way you see it obviously. But millions upon millions do.

Some of those most educated people around have a faith in God. Thats not their imagination.

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10-20-2009 12:27 AM  8 years agoPost 463
STR8HUCKIN

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lodi ca

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Most people believe in god because it was pounded into thier heads from a very early age. They were told you would go to hell if you didn't believe.

How many people would believe if they were not brainwashed as a young child?

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10-20-2009 12:38 AM  8 years agoPost 464
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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< raising hand >

(agnostic parents )

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10-20-2009 01:04 AM  8 years agoPost 465
RC/helicopman

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Ok Gball

Since you feel the Bible is a fable, I will pose this question to you. Explain to me how the universe came into existence without a first cause or creator. I eagerly await your answer????

I have examine the issue of the exist of God for years and I also realize the Bible has a central theme that runs all the way through it from the writings of Moses 1500 hundred years B.C. to the writings of John nearly a 100 years A.D. A centralize theme that all the Bible writers have that could not have been imagine or fake.

Usually Dennis is writing about something political and I am not so much into politics, but he makes a good point in his last post.

Imagination and faith are definitely two different things.

So I await your scientific explanation of the creation of the Universe and if you are able to answer that question I have some more.

Remember it takes more faith to believe in nothing then it does to believe in something. So your lack of faith in believing in God or the Bible leaves a void that most be fill. The Universe is here so explain how. I ask you, or Nitro or any other to fill that void!

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10-20-2009 01:08 AM  8 years agoPost 466
GimbalFan (RIP)

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. . . A centralize theme that all the Bible writers have that could not have been imagine or fake.
That you imagine this to be so has no connection whatsoever to what is real.

Do you understand and acknowledge that not one single word of your 'new testament' was written until more than a century after JC died?

Do you understand and acknowledge that there have been literally dozens of translations & rewrites of that entire book of fables over the last 1900 years?
it takes more faith to believe in nothing then it does to believe in something.
That you imagine this to be so has no connection whatsoever to what is real.
your lack of faith in believing in God or the Bible leaves a void that most be fill.
All my 'voids' were long ago filled with exactly what all 'voids' should be filled with -- verifiable facts backed by solid, sound science -- and nothing more.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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10-20-2009 01:41 AM  8 years agoPost 467
Dennis (RIP)

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Quote
A centralize theme that all the Bible writers have that could not have been imagine or fake.

That you imagine this to be so has no bearing whatsoever on the actual truth.
It makes no sense to me that GimbalFan or RC/helicopman knows the actual truth other than through their faith or lack of it. No offense meant to anyone here, but scholars having been studying this since mankind began. Even those that have very advanced educations around the world still hold to their faith in God in one fashion or another. Millions of them. At my level of Faith, I would not even consider debating the subject with them.

So the debate here is about a Faith, or lack of it? Or whether God exists or does not? Since most would agree that there can not possibly be anything resolved here on this subject, it seems to me that this discussion is more about ego than it is about Faith or lack of it.

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10-20-2009 01:50 AM  8 years agoPost 468
RC/helicopman

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Not true Dennis, at least not in my part. I have no ego to bruise or not to bruise. I simply have a strong belief in God and in the Bible and enjoy discussing it with others.

Furthermore, I learn every time I have these discussions.

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10-20-2009 01:52 AM  8 years agoPost 469
diegoconsafos

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San Antonio, TX

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Do you understand and acknowledge that not one single word of your 'new testament' was written until more than a century after JC died?
Research this. It is generally agreed that the four gospels were ALL written between 50-70 A.D. When you consider that Jesus died in 30 A.D., that's only 20-40 years after Jesus was crucified.

Once again, it looks like basic math is over Gimbal's head. Let me help him out. A "century" is 100 years. 20 to 40 years is a LOT less than 100 years. To put it another way, it is less than half of a "century". Back to school again, child?

I know this will not make any difference about whether someone believes or not, and he will still insult me, but that's ok. I will pray for him anyway. I hope someday God will reveal himself to all of you here that do not believe.
Thanks.
Diego

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10-20-2009 01:52 AM  8 years agoPost 470
RC/helicopman

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Gball
Since you probably don't know what the theme of the Bible is, I don't expect you to understand it.

And yes, I do know that there have been many translations of the Bible. Which Proves what?
Do you understand and acknowledge that not a single word of the 'new testament' was written until more than a century after JC died?
But now you have complicated things in your arguments. Now you have made a submission about the time the Gospels were written and other new testament writings were written, so please provide proof and evidence that the new testament was written more then a century after Jesus died. Since the Bible indicates Jesus died in 33 C.E. that would mean if your statement is true, the Bible was written after 133 C.E. Which would mean that none of the books of the Bible were written by the individuals that the writings have been attributed too.

For instance, the Gospels were not written by Matthew, Luke, Mark or Luke. Paul did not write the fourteen books of the Bible that have been attributed to him, nor did James write his book, or Peter, or Jude write their book and all these probably died in the first century.

I have had discussions with some very real, intelligent, hard core skeptics in the past, for a number of months. Consequently, I am acquainted with many of their arguments. However, I have never heard such a statement as you just presented. But I am not a know it all, since you have made this statement, you should provide proof of this accusation. I would really enjoy examining it.

And by the way, you are also doing what those skeptics did , they avoided answering this question.

Please explain to me how the Universe came into existence without a first cause or a creator?

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10-20-2009 02:05 AM  8 years agoPost 471
GimbalFan (RIP)

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It is generally agreed that the four gospels were ALL written between 50-70 A.D.
That you imagine this to be so has no connection whatsoever to what is real.
Please explain to me how the Universe came into existence without a first cause or a creator?
Experience on this thread, and others both here and elsewhere, has shown with great certainty that a rational, sane conversation about the fundamentals of existence and the origins of the Universe with someone who says this . . .
I personally do not believe in evolution - RC/helicopman
. . . has little or no chance for a 'happy ending'.

But good luck with that 'faith' thing. I certainly hope that works out for ya.
_____
Worth repeating for those who missed its meaning first time around:
"Ever wake up from a dream still so vivid in your mind, that -- for those first few moments after you rise -- you're absolutely certain it was real?"
That's an easy-to-recognise example of the power of the human imagination.

The main reason so many are so misinformed -- even here in the midst of the 'Information Age' where verifiable facts arrive mere seconds after questions are posed -- is cuz most folks never learn (or were never taught) to recognize and distinguish the difference between what they imagine and what is real.

An inability to discern between the two usually leads to existential blindness.

In this day and age, to imagine the existence of gods (especially as spewed forth by organized religions) is no less foolish than imagining the Earth is flat.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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10-20-2009 02:51 AM  8 years agoPost 472
RC/helicopman

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Now you are reverting to circular arguments. Whether I believe in evolution or don't believe in evolution should have no bearing on the question of explaining how a very complex Universe could come into existence without a first cause.

You are also making statements and offering zero proof. If you are familiar with debating and discussing different points of view, then you would realize that whom ever makes the positive ascertain is responsible for providing the proof.

Therefore I again ask you, what proof do you have that the gospels were written a hundred years after the death of Christ.

If that was the case they were not eye witness accounts. It is easy to make ascertains and statements, but if you want people to support your side of the of a debate you have to offer proof.

I asking you to answer the question about the beginning of the Universe and it appears that you are not able to do it, if not just say so. Don't revert to circular and straw man arguments about the earth being flat or not flat. I have never made the statement that the earth was flat so that is a straw man argument.

However, just be man or woman enough to say you don't know or don't have an answer instead of reverting to silly arguments and accusations with no proof. Anybody can't make a claim, but unless you are prepare to back the claim up with some kind of substantiating proof, your claim has no merit!

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10-20-2009 02:55 AM  8 years agoPost 473
Dennis (RIP)

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However, just be man or woman enough to say you don't know or don't have an answer instead of reverting to silly arguments and accusations with no proof.
Tempting. But, I'll leave that one alone.

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10-20-2009 02:56 AM  8 years agoPost 474
Gearhead

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""Please explain to me how the Universe came into existence without a first cause or a creator""

lets say there is a creator, a God,,so Please explain where the creator God came from and why there is only 1 ???

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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10-20-2009 02:58 AM  8 years agoPost 475
GimbalFan (RIP)

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"Please explain to me how the Universe came into existence without a first cause or a creator" - RC/helicopman
lets say there is a creator, a God,,so Please explain where the creator God came from and why there is only 1 ??? - the Wasp
Careful Jim -- that sounds a lot like 'circular logic'. Danger Will Robinson!

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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10-20-2009 03:02 AM  8 years agoPost 476
RC/helicopman

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""Please explain to me how the Universe came into existence without a first cause or a creator""
I never said there was one or many, so I am not making any accusation about the number.

However, according to the Bible God has always existed!

But you're right Gball, it is circular argumentation. So guys, please don't answer a question with a question.

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10-20-2009 03:25 AM  8 years agoPost 477
BOOGIE

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LAFAYETTE LA

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1 thing is for sure we will all find out one day

MSH USA / Lynx Heli Innovations

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10-20-2009 03:59 AM  8 years agoPost 478
baby uh1

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Gimbal, Before you put all of your faith in science remember it was the scientists of the day that believed the world was flat!
Just a thought.

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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10-20-2009 04:09 AM  8 years agoPost 479
GimbalFan (RIP)

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remember it was the scientists of the day that believed the world was flat!
Not many. Copernicus first (in the 1530's) then Galileo figured it out. From then on few disagreed other than the insane religious leaders 'of the day'.

Galileo was eventually persecuted and confined by the church for the rest of his life for refusing to acquiesce to those same insane religious leaders.

EDIT -- I was thinking of heliocentrism, the uncommon idea (at that time) that the Sun is the center of the solar system rather than the Earth.

Plato and Aristotle were among the first to publicly proclaim their findings that the Earth was a sphere, about 2300 years ago. And how did they accomplish this? Pythagorean mathematics -- a budding tool of science. Imagine that.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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10-20-2009 04:33 AM  8 years agoPost 480
RC/helicopman

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I would like to know the answer to my question as to how such a complex entity as the Universe came into existence on it's own accord, whether it is from Gball or Nitro or anyone else. A scientific answer will suffice.

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