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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › Does God Exist?
12-28-2009 03:57 PM  7 years agoPost 2321
str8den

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hootowl; i think i know which side of the fence ur sat on, but it might take someone with a bit more upstairs to point out to you that i was actually sticking up for you lot.

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12-28-2009 04:02 PM  7 years agoPost 2322
hootowl

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Thanks

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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12-28-2009 04:05 PM  7 years agoPost 2323
str8den

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[size=small]you're welcome:

so i would like to hear from the intelligent otherside please on the original comments i made, and i will quote them again
how many of you guys (or anybody you know) wears a lucky-charm, or dons an old pair of underpants prior to a competition or any other situation where you think a little 'luck' may be needed?
i bet there are a few of you, might have been when you were taking your driving test maybe? you might even be embarassed now by it, or it could've 'worked' for you (a few times infact!!?) and that you'll never be without your 'lucky-charm.' even some notable F1 drivers have this quirk. didn't buzz aldrin or another astronaut take their teddy-bear or something daft?
or something daft...........- does this make these people any less intelligent for believing in a 'nonsense?' fair enough, there will always be some very talented people with a lower IQ than average who are regarded the best in the world in their given field - other lesser mortals will have to train and study much harder to acheive similar results.
what i'm trying to get at is this; why are 'beleivers of faith' deemed less inelligent than an athiest or the other one? although i see a very strong and logical/intelligent discussion from the athiest side, it does not mean to say all athiests are intelligent, on the otherhand someone beleiving in a nonsense doesn't necessarily mean they are any less intelligent.

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12-28-2009 04:18 PM  7 years agoPost 2324
synodontis

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why are 'beleivers of faith' deemed less inelligent than an athiest or the other one?
They're not, they're simple delusional - that's all. We can't strictly prove they are delusional though, that must be admitted in the interests of fairness
although i see a very strong and logical/intelligent discussion from the athiest side, it does not mean to say all athiests are intelligent, on the otherhand someone beleiving in a nonsense doesn't necessarily mean they are any less intelligent.
There is no "very strong and logical/intelligent discussion" discussion from the athiest side. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the existence of God can never be decided by science nor rational debate amongst ourselves. It's simply not possible.

I DON'T choose NOT to believe. It was never my choice. I just don't believe and that's the end of it. I will not be bullied, judged on, coerced, forced into submission by silly, pitiful threats from people who believe in such and such BS (and that's my judgement there) about what the truth is (because they have cannot produce anything to back it up - their God never seems to show himself to open negotiation channels).

Regarding one of your points, it's much easier for someone of low intelligence to believe in God, and get sucked into a "faith" because the majorioty of religions in question don't allow for people to think for themselves. They give you silly stories to fill in the gaps.

As eSmith would say, hopefully these silly memes of religion will die out a well deserved death and humanity can look back on its past and comment, "Now that was one of the best con artist tricks of all time".

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12-28-2009 04:34 PM  7 years agoPost 2325
str8den

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synodontis: so whats your veiw on lucky-charms, some pretty (to me) clever professionals seem to beleive in having them?
it's obvoiusly (to me anyway) a psychological thing that gives some sort of comfort, but isn't that as insane as beleiving in god?

this was really the question, and i didn't mean to prompt you into stating your standing on this isssue. i say this as i feel this part was a little over the top.
I DON'T choose NOT to believe. It was never my choice. I just don't believe and that's the end of it. I will not be bullied, judged on, coerced, forced into submission by silly, pitiful threats from people who believe in such and such BS (and that's my judgement there) about what the truth is (because they have cannot produce anything to back it up - their God never seems to show himself to open negotiation channels).

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12-28-2009 04:43 PM  7 years agoPost 2326
synodontis

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str8den,

I think that the general population have a very, very hard time accepting the fact that there are going to be things/concepts in life that we will NEVER know the answer to - not in a definitive, final way. That's just part of the human condition.

People have superstition because they are unsure of themselves and they need "irrational" comfort.

I'm surprised that my example about the native islanders eating practices a few posts back was not seen as a metaphor for religion and science by some of the religious here. The islanders still refuse to believe the scientist was right about the plant rotting their brains. In the same light the religious refuse to believe that there was no Adam and Eve, science solved that one, and yet they still cling onto the silly "belief" because some silly book said so. And in turn, that rots their thinking. . .

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12-28-2009 04:59 PM  7 years agoPost 2327
str8den

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thanks there synodontis; very good answers - my veiws exactly.

i'm sure science has still a long way to go - progress or evolve if you like, so i'm hoping that you'll agree with me that it isn't unreasonable at some point (if we exist long enough as a spicies) that evidence might well appear which will make 'the most intelligent creature that man knows of - man,' seem a little pre-historic?

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12-28-2009 05:30 PM  7 years agoPost 2328
hootowl

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I think that the general population have a very, very hard time accepting the fact that there are going to be things/concepts in life that we will NEVER know the answer to - not in a definitive, final way.
Actually that's what science can't except.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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12-28-2009 06:17 PM  7 years agoPost 2329
synodontis

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Actually that's what science can't except.
yes, actually it can.

you can't speak for science - so please don't even try.

you speak of it as if it's on an anti religious crusade - it is NOT and NEVER was. You just simply don't get that at all.

The question of whether God exists or not is of absolutely no interest to science - never was. It's just a silly notion in the minds of people who feel they are being persecuted. There is absolutely NO persecution going on at all - but you just don't get that.

Look at my metaphor about the islanders again to see if you can get what I'm on about.

Meanwhile for some light humour I have some quotes from the great writer Mencken on the subject:
The theory seems to be that as long as a man is a failure he is one of God's children, but that as soon as he succeeds he is taken over by the Devil.
Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy
Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth
We must respect the other fellow's religion,but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.
And my favourite which eSmith will readily agree shows "God" in the correct light:
Creator: a comedian whose audience is afraid to laugh

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12-28-2009 06:22 PM  7 years agoPost 2330
husky385

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Eugene

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Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the Edit : But just had to add this ???? ///

Does any one know Gimbal's 1st Name ???

greyeagle
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's Gary.
"gary gimblefan" I like it, has a nice ring to it.
Kevin

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12-28-2009 11:21 PM  7 years agoPost 2331
hootowl

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Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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12-28-2009 11:47 PM  7 years agoPost 2332
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth. - H.L.Mencken, ℅ synodontis
Excellent.
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart. - Mencken, ℅ synodontis
Brilliant!

And a personal favorite:
A church is a place in which gentlemen who have never been to heaven brag about it to persons who will never get there. - H.L.Mencken

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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12-29-2009 12:08 AM  7 years agoPost 2333
DougsRC

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Maybe it was "God" or my limited intelligence that told me that "GimbalFan" was pretty much a D*ck Don't forget to EDIT four times

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12-29-2009 12:57 AM  7 years agoPost 2334
philip 01

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ft worth

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he won't.

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12-29-2009 02:08 AM  7 years agoPost 2335
Yug

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This is a futile argument.
Each will believe in what they believe in to their death. None will be the winner as there is no winner but respect of others beliefs is all that can be accomplished herein. Respect of the 6 main religious beleifs must ultimately be 'good enough'.
This thread exemplifies the necessity for man to stand shoulder to shoulder with his brothers in the common good of mankind. This applies weather you are a devout religous extremist, atheist or otherwise. The argument in all it's guises is a wast of time for anyone that is pro humanatarianismistically inclined.
My vote is on the positive aspect of life.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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12-29-2009 02:23 AM  7 years agoPost 2336
Dennis (RIP)

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pro humanatarianismistically inclined.

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12-29-2009 02:42 AM  7 years agoPost 2337
Yug

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You jesticulate, but I'm being serious

Vegetable rights and Peace

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12-29-2009 02:51 AM  7 years agoPost 2338
hootowl

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I'm with you Yug. I has to be that way.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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12-29-2009 11:51 AM  7 years agoPost 2339
synodontis

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This is a futile argument.
only for the terminally "deluded". Most people who have faith may not be morons - but that doesn't mean they don't have moronic beliefs.
Each will believe in what they believe in to their death. None will be the winner as there is no winner but respect of others beliefs is all that can be accomplished herein. Respect of the 6 main religious beleifs must ultimately be 'good enough'.
I really don't think people have "faith". Not in the strict sense of the word. What they have is ego, vanity, self righteousness, ignorance, total utter laziness, unwillingness to question and see beyond things, and general apathy which complicates things further.
This thread exemplifies the necessity for man to stand shoulder to shoulder with his brothers in the common good of mankind. This applies weather you are a devout religous extremist, atheist or otherwise. The argument in all it's guises is a wast of time for anyone that is pro humanatarianismistically inclined.
Not possible. For one, the major religions have brutalized bullying and judgement onto others who do think, who do question, and who are willing to see beyond what some silly text written so many years ago says.

For another, they are also not really compatible: each says the other is wrong. There is no logical and ethical consistency in their claims too.

Thirdly, there's this wonderful "love one another equally" etc. . . utter rubbish. Man evolved to live in groups of a few hundred in a tribal society, you may not like that, but it's the truth. We got to our global society in a blink of geological time, which means that we haven't shaken off this tendency. This produces a time lagging effect on our behaviour patterns - the evidence is all around you if you care to look. If man can really love one another equally he wouldn't show preference of his offspring over strangers - the who will you save in a burning house example has been mentioned too many times.

I have more to add, but I leave that for later.

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12-29-2009 02:40 PM  7 years agoPost 2340
hootowl

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Can I get in the last word?

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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