RunRyder RC
 7  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 8 pages [ <<    <     2      3     ( 4 )     5      6     NEXT    >> ] 4770 views POST REPLY
HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › Judge Clay Land to birthers.......Get lost!
10-19-2009 11:12 PM  8 years agoPost 61
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

They obviously had something to present to make it that far.
Nothing but an allegation. It was a 1/2 hour trial, most of which was the plaintiffs argument.
He provided a legal document issued by the state of Hawaii, stating birthplace as Hawaii. Would have been acceptable for ANY other person as a legal state issued document. The state of Hawaii has even stated on more than one occasion thats its true and valid.
There is enough reasonable doubt, that a judge should decide if it valid or not.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 02:52 PM  8 years agoPost 62
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

^ Sour grapes! Get over it.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 02:57 PM  8 years agoPost 63
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

^ Sour grapes! Get over it.
No, my accuser got his day in court. He lost

Alan Keyes is entitled to his too. I don't care if he wins or loses. But, he is entitled under the constitution, just as mine was.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 03:58 PM  8 years agoPost 64
OzarkCopterBum

rrApprentice

Arkansas Ozarks

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Nothing but an allegation. It was a 1/2 hour trial, most of which was the plaintiffs argument.
Sounds like you got screwed and your lawyer should have gotten it tossed before you had to show up. Maybe it was a civil case where the rules are different. I don't know and don't really care as it has no basis on what Taint is trying to pull.
There is enough reasonable doubt, that a judge should decide if it valid or not.
Judge Land decided that it wasn't valid. Are you saying that EVERY federal judge in the US should get a ruling? At some point it becomes even more frivolous than it already is and it should be obvious to anyone. She has no tangible evidence, none, zip, zero and nada.

And what are these "reasonable doubts" anyway. All I've heard is a lot of hearsay and no real tangible hold it in your hand type evidence. She's already presented TWO fake birth certificates as the so called smoking gun.

She seems to believe she can go to federal court and make someone else prove that her suspicions aren't true and that's not how the federal courts work under our constitution. Any constitutional lawyer that doesn't have an axe to grind here will tell you the exact same thing. With all due respect, anyone that believes different is a fool.

Repo man's got all day and all night! Lets go get a drink!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 04:02 PM  8 years agoPost 65
RonHill

rrVeteran

FLL, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OzarkCopterBum

Then why do you even bother responding to me.... You will not get what you want, I've made that pretty clear.
Ah, so you admit you are unable to have a polite debate based on facts and without childish insults?
I do not care if I annoy you. If it really bothers you that much put me on ignore or quit reading my threads.
Nah, I will not ignore you.... It is too much fun to watch you run away from any facts and A TON on fun to shoot down all your BS rants.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 04:44 PM  8 years agoPost 66
OzarkCopterBum

rrApprentice

Arkansas Ozarks

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ah, so you admit you are unable to have a polite debate based on facts and without childish insults?
No, that's not it at all.

Do you admit that you like to wear women's underwear and dance in front of the mirror while lip syncing to Madonna's Material Girl?

Of course you don't as far as I know, but as long as we are jumping to conclusions. ..
Nah, I will not ignore you.... It is too much fun to watch you run away from any facts and A TON on fun to shoot down all your BS rants.
Turning everything into a personal attack on me or how I post is not shooting down anything.

Repo man's got all day and all night! Lets go get a drink!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 07:15 PM  8 years agoPost 67
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Sounds like you got screwed and your lawyer should have gotten it tossed before you had to show up.
You just can't assume that without knowing any of the facts.
Judge Land decided that it wasn't valid.
In Rhodes case, the judge Land may be correct. In Keyes case, judge Carter saw fit to allow the trial.
Are you saying that EVERY federal judge in the US should get a ruling?
A ruling? No, because rulings come after a trial.
And what are these "reasonable doubts" anyway.
If Obama was an Indonesian student, his U.S. citizenship is in question. If he did receive financial assistance for foreign nationals while he was attending college, his citizenship is in question. I don't know if there is any validity to these claims. But, with the records in question being sealed, it's not possible to get the evidence without a court order. That is why the Keyes Vs. Obama trial will proceed.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 07:56 PM  8 years agoPost 68
FrankC

rrApprentice

Ocala, Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

And that is my point, the records being sealed is what causes the questioning. It is a Constitutional requirement that the President be born in the US. If there is any question whatsoever of his validity as President then We The People are entitled to an absolutely ironclad PROOF. Until that proof is given I deny he is validly president.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 08:30 PM  8 years agoPost 69
OzarkCopterBum

rrApprentice

Arkansas Ozarks

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You just can't assume that without knowing any of the facts.
Exactly which led to my next statement about I don't know or care and it doesn't have any basis on what Taint is up to. I did note that what little info you gave sounded like a civil case where the court rules are different.
In Rhodes case, the judge Land may be correct. In Keyes case, judge Carter saw fit to allow the trial.
No, he has not, scheduling a date is a formality. I've tried several times to explain that to you, but you just don't get it.
A ruling? No, because rulings come after a trial.
No, it is not. Its just a decision and can come at anytime in the legal process. Judge Land ruled that the case had no merit and refused to hear it. He also ruled that it was a frivolous case and further ruled that she will be held in contempt and fined unless she could show a reason why she should not. She did not, hence his ruling that she should be fined.
If Obama was an Indonesian student, his U.S. citizenship is in question.
Why? I have a buddy who's dad worked for the AP and was stationed in Italy. He and his sisters attended an Italian school for two years and to this date, no one has ever questioned their citizenship.

You have a link to some law that says if you attend school in a foreign country that they relinquish their US citizenship?
If he did receive financial assistance for foreign nationals while he was attending college, his citizenship is in question.
So you are saying that say, for the sake of argument, that if his step grandparents, the Soetoro's, gave him money for an american college that somehow brings his citizenship into question? How is that?
You have a link to a court ruling somewhere that shows that if a person receives funds from a foreign national that he relinquishes his US citizenship?

Especially in light of the fact that his birth certificate says he was in fact born in Hawaii which makes him a natural born American citizen?

Do you have ANY precedent that shows either of the items you mentioned applying to any other US citizen or do they only apply to Barak Obama?

Repo man's got all day and all night! Lets go get a drink!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 08:36 PM  8 years agoPost 70
OzarkCopterBum

rrApprentice

Arkansas Ozarks

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

And that is my point, the records being sealed is what causes the questioning.
And again.
EVERYONES records are sealed, not just his but EVERYONES.

Yours are sealed, mine are sealed, 1stPlaces are sealed, RonHills are sealed. EVERYONES!!!!!! Some pesky rule to do with YOUR constitutional right to privacy. The constitution is funny that way, it applies to everyone.

Funny, how when you talk about guns, everybodys all for it, but when it gets in the way of their axe grinding, ahhh, not so much...

Repo man's got all day and all night! Lets go get a drink!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 09:15 PM  8 years agoPost 71
FrankC

rrApprentice

Ocala, Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OCB, I am a software developer. There are databases out there that would absolutely stun you with the level of detail they have on YOU. I know, I have seen them with my own eyes. I have interviewed with the companies that developed them and seen sample runs on their own employees. I was staggered by what they had pulled together, every single bit of it gathered from public domain databases. You have no idea of what is out there. BUT there are seals on the records for Obama, seals covering the very information you would be required to give in order to receive a security clearance, or be hired into a sensitive job.

I did a google search for verifying birth certificates and one of the sites made this comment: "There are many situations in which you may need an official copy of your birth certificate. In order to apply for a U.S. Passport, an official copy of the birth certificate is necessary. It is relatively easy and inexpensive to obtain an official birth certificate copy."

There was also a list of persons who could legally request a copy. Besides the obvious ones of yourself and your parents, it also indicated you could give authority to another person as in a power of attorney. It also said a government body could make the request and receive a copy of the birth certificate.

Your records (and mine) are not quite as "sealed" as you would like to think.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 09:56 PM  8 years agoPost 72
RonHill

rrVeteran

FLL, FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OzarkCopterBum


Ah, so you admit you are unable to have a polite debate based on facts and without childish insults?
No, that's not it at all.
Your posting history and tactics prove otherwise.
Do you admit that you like to wear women's underwear and dance in front of the mirror while lip syncing to Madonna's Material Girl?
The difference is while you might accuse me of that... I don't have a history of doing that. you DO have a history of avoiding polite debate based on facts and instead resorting to childish antics.... Like the above comment in fact.
Of course you don't as far as I know, but as long as we are jumping to conclusions. ..
It is not jumping to a conclusion if your history backs up the observations.

Now... car to try and have a polite discussion like adults?

Lets try it now:
Yours are sealed, mine are sealed, 1stPlaces are sealed, RonHills are sealed. EVERYONES!!!!!! Some pesky rule to do with YOUR constitutional right to privacy. The constitution is funny that way, it applies to everyone.
Except my rights to privacy can easily be removed when a question of my citizenship comes into question. I had to PROVE citizenship to enter the military, I would think you would have to PROVE citizenship to be the CiC. I had to PROVE citizenship to get a passport...I would think you would have to prove citizenship to be CiC.

Now, can you give ONE logical reason why someone would NOT provide a copy of a birth certificate when asked for it?
Funny, how when you talk about guns, everybodys all for it, but when it gets in the way of their axe grinding, ahhh, not so much...
Funny you mention guns... I also have to prove I am a citizen (or legal resident) to buy a gun.... Why not have the same standards for CiC?????

For the record I doubt that the dems were so stupid as to run a guy that they didn't vet.... But still, how hard and what harm would it be to provide a copy and shut this whole thing down flat?

I can't think of a single good reason to not provide a BC.... Can you?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 10:27 PM  8 years agoPost 73
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Exactly which led to my next statement about I don't know or care and it doesn't have any basis on what Taint is up to. I did note that what little info you gave sounded like a civil case where the court rules are different.
What are you talking about? Taitz filed her actions in federal civil court.
No, he has not, scheduling a date is a formality. I've tried several times to explain that to you, but you just don't get it.
It was filed nearly 10 months ago. That's ample time for the judge to declare the case to be frivolous. It's still on the docket. Apparently, the court doesn't "get it" either.
No, it is not. Its just a decision and can come at anytime in the legal process.
You're correct. I was wrong this time.
You have a link to some law that says if you attend school in a foreign country that they relinquish their US citizenship?
Current Indonesian law states that an Indonesian citizen cannot hold another nationality. In order to attend public school in Indonesia at the time, were students required to be Indonesian citizens?
So you are saying that say, for the sake of argument, that if his step grandparents, the Soetoro's, gave him money for an american college that somehow brings his citizenship into question? How is that?
No, I am saying the rumor of Obama receiving a Fullbright scholarship should be investigated. But, we can't because Obama will not release the records.
Especially in light of the fact that his birth certificate says he was in fact born in Hawaii which makes him a natural born American citizen?
How do you know that? Have you seen the certificate? Or, just the recently printed certificate of live birth?
Do you have ANY precedent that shows either of the items you mentioned applying to any other US citizen or do they only apply to Barak Obama?
Yes, I do... Every time I have applied for a job, they wanted a copy of my college transcripts, which i gladly provided. We are Obama's "boss". It's only right that we get to see his transcripts.
Some pesky rule to do with YOUR constitutional right to privacy.
And what part of the constitution guarantees you a right to privacy?

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 10:29 PM  8 years agoPost 74
OzarkCopterBum

rrApprentice

Arkansas Ozarks

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I did a google search for verifying birth certificates and one of the sites made this comment: "There are many situations in which you may need an official copy of your birth certificate. In order to apply for a U.S. Passport, an official copy of the birth certificate is necessary. It is relatively easy and inexpensive to obtain an official birth certificate copy."
Here's a link to what an official copy of a Hawaiian birth certificate looks like.

FactCheck.org

3 Hawaiian officials, including the Republican governor have gone on record stating that it is in fact, an official document.
It also said a government body could make the request and receive a copy of the birth certificate.
Which none of these government bodies has compelled them to do for obvious reasons as shown in the link above.
Your records (and mine) are not quite as "sealed" as you would like to think.
Great. Tell me where I was born, what schools I went to and who paid for it and I'll apologize for doubting you and join your side.

Until then. ..

Repo man's got all day and all night! Lets go get a drink!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 11:39 PM  8 years agoPost 75
OzarkCopterBum

rrApprentice

Arkansas Ozarks

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What are you talking about? Taitz filed her actions in federal civil court.
I guess I wrongly assumed that you had been in state civil court. State, Federal, Civil and Criminal courts all have different rules so unless you are willing to provide me with all the details then I'm done trying to see your comparison.

Barring that, no judge in his right mind is going to hear this case based on rumors and suspicions. Its already been dismissed 4 or 5 times after being filed by several different lawyers.

How many dismissals do you have to see before it registers that there is no case to even have a trial?
Based on your experiences, it seems that at least 1 of the previous judges would have heard it had there been even on the flimsiest of evidence. None have.
The fact that you were dragged into court on supposedly no evidence whatsoever really reinforces my point more than yours.
It was filed nearly 10 months ago. That's ample time for the judge to declare the case to be frivolous. It's still on the docket. Apparently, the court doesn't "get it" either.
Apparently they do as evidenced by the article I pasted above stating that her case isn't going very well, at all.
Current Indonesian law states that an Indonesian citizen cannot hold another nationality. In order to attend public school in Indonesia at the time, were students required to be Indonesian citizens?
Why are you asking me? I do not care about Indonesian law. Its irrelevant to American law and what happens here in my country.

Did his step father lie to the Indonesian government get his minor son into school? I have no idea.
If, for the sake of argument he did, does that negate the fact that he was born in Hawaii and has an official Hawaiian birth certificate declaring him to be a natural born citizen of the US?

You have any official documents of him or his step father officially renouncing his citizenship?
No, you have nothing but hunches, suspicions and an axe to grind that's completely unrelated to the issue we are discussing here.

Is there precedent where a minors US citizenship was renounced by a guardian and then reclaimed by that minor as an adult?
How do you know that? Have you seen the certificate? Or, just the recently printed certificate of live birth?
That and statements from THREE Hawaiian officials stating it to be a certified copy.
I have no need to actually hold it in my hands, nor have I felt the need to hold any other US presidents birth certificate in my hand.

What do you expect anyway, for them to mail it around to all interested parties for personal inspection? Are you nuts?

What do you and Taint have to disprove this is not an official document that would require further documentation?

You have nothing but hunches, suspicions and an axe to grind that's completely unrelated to the issue we are discussing here.
No, I am saying the rumor of Obama receiving a Fullbright scholarship should be investigated. But, we can't because Obama will not release the records.

FactCheck

Sorry, I think my government should be doing more important things instead of investigating rumors from every stupid asinine email forward these clowns come up with.

You do realize that an email forward is the source of the rumor you are clinging to right?
We are Obama's "boss". It's only right that we get to see his transcripts.
Then call him up and ask him for them. Or better yet change the laws that will require him and everybody else elected after him to do exactly the same thing.
And what part of the constitution guarantees you a right to privacy?
Several parts.

US Constitution Online

FindLaw.com

An Explanation.


UKMC Law School

Repo man's got all day and all night! Lets go get a drink!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-20-2009 11:54 PM  8 years agoPost 76
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Funny you mention guns... I also have to prove I am a citizen (or legal resident) to buy a gun.... Why not have the same standards for CiC?????

For the record I doubt that the dems were so stupid as to run a guy that they didn't vet.... But still, how hard and what harm would it be to provide a copy and shut this whole thing down flat?
Ron,
The State of Florida only requires someone show proper ID like a drivers license or state issued ID card to get a gun. The application form that you fill out asks if you are a U.S citizen as well as other things such as are you mentally incompetent, have a felony record, etc.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement is then contacted by the gun dealer to verify there is no legal reason (felony arrest, violent misdemeanor crime, etc.) you can't have a gun. A private individual selling a gun has no requirement to do any check.

I'm sure the RNC vetted Obama thoroughly too. That's why this whole Birther movement is so ludicrous. There is no verifiable evidence to support any claim that Obama is not a U.S. citizen! The whole thing reeks of conspiracy theory mentality.

Let's move on to the real issues. We should better use this energy wasted over arguing about the legitimacy of Obama as president. He is the president. Examining his and Congress's actions are far more important and germane - particularly with regards to health care reform, banking industry regulations, climate change and other environmental BS (cap and trade is a tax and a bureaucratic waste). Too many lobbyists are influencing public policy to enrich the health care and banking industries. The American public is being used a saps.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2009 01:12 AM  8 years agoPost 77
FrankC

rrApprentice

Ocala, Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So, suppose you sign a contract. Later you find out the contract had clauses that were deceptive and not legal. Is the contract still binding? Do you care if it is binding?

Suppose you get married, and later find out the person who performed the ceremony was not legally authorized to perform weddings. Is your marriage valid? Do you care if it is valid?

Suppose you hire a person for your company, and later find out the person lied about their qualifications. Does this matter? Do you keep the person on your staff?

Do laws and requirements matter? If not, I have a bridge I would like to sell to you. It is a beautiful bridge and everyone loves it and it can be yours. Except, it is not mine to sell. But you won't mind if I keep your money, will you?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2009 01:45 PM  8 years agoPost 78
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I guess I wrongly assumed that you had been in state civil court. State, Federal, Civil and Criminal courts all have different rules so unless you are willing to provide me with all the details then I'm done trying to see your comparison.
The fact remains that I was sued and had to appear in court, just like thousands of other small business owners are every year because of some knucklehead that doesn't understand right from wrong.
How many dismissals do you have to see before it registers that there is no case to even have a trial?
A dismissal won't do. Only a trial will suffice.
The fact that you were dragged into court on supposedly no evidence whatsoever really reinforces my point more than yours.
Really? So, my accuser got his day in court, but none of Obama's accusers get theirs. Yeah, that reinforces your point... whatever.
Why are you asking me? I do not care about Indonesian law. Its irrelevant to American law and what happens here in my country.
Yeah, who cares if Obama may be illegitimate!
What do you expect anyway, for them to mail it around to all interested parties for personal inspection?
No, just present the original birth certificate to a judge, an accuser and a witness. That would settle the entire debate.
Are you nuts?
Yes, but I haven't been legally declared nuts... yet.
What do you and Taint have to disprove this is not an official document that would require further documentation?
It's not about me. I don't have anything but questions. I'm not personally involved.
You have nothing but hunches, suspicions and an axe to grind that's completely unrelated to the issue we are discussing here.
No... Look up the definition of Natural Born Citizen and legal precedence for that definition. Obama is not now, and never has been a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S.. He is no more qualified to be president than Arnold Schwarzenegger is.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2009 04:31 PM  8 years agoPost 79
OzarkCopterBum

rrApprentice

Arkansas Ozarks

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The fact remains that I was sued and had to appear in court, just like thousands of other small business owners are every year because of some knucklehead that doesn't understand right from wrong.
Until I get all the details then its a moot issue.
A dismissal won't do. Only a trial will suffice.
There's no evidence for a trial. If there was, there would be one, but there's not so there won't be one.

Why not bring your own suit? You are supposedly entitled and obviously have all the answers so go for it, 1stPlace V Obama.
Really? So, my accuser got his day in court, but none of Obama's accusers get theirs. Yeah, that reinforces your point... whatever.
Again, you are comparing this to something that only you know the details of.
Yeah, who cares if Obama may be illegitimate!
I do. But you or anyone else for that matter has shown NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that what you say is true. You can keep repeating it till you are blue in the face, but until some actual hard evidence is shown, pfft.
No, just present the original birth certificate to a judge, an accuser and a witness. That would settle the entire debate.
He already has. I gave you a link.
Yes, but I haven't been legally declared nuts... yet.
I'm not far behind if I keep arguing with you.....
It's not about me. I don't have anything but questions. I'm not personally involved.
I got questions too. Did Glenn Beck rape and murder a young girl in 1990? Why is he trying to cover it up and spending millions of dollars on attorneys? Why hasn't he answered these charges and put the issue to rest? Do you think that he should be put on trial and forced to prove that he didn't do it?

Repo man's got all day and all night! Lets go get a drink!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-21-2009 04:49 PM  8 years agoPost 80
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Why not bring your own suit?
I don't care enough to do so.

Did Glenn Beck rape and murder a young girl in 1990?

No
Why is he trying to cover it up and spending millions of dollars on attorneys?
He's not
Why hasn't he answered these charges and put the issue to rest? Do you think that he should be put on trial and forced to prove that he didn't do it?
Has he ever been charged with this crime? No
Has a victim ever pressed charges? No
I do. But you or anyone else for that matter has shown NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that what you say is true. You can keep repeating it till you are blue in the face, but until some actual hard evidence is shown, pfft.
Unless the definition of a "natural born citizen" has been changed to allow for Obama's circumstances, he is not a natural born citizen, and therefor ineligible to be president. Just because the Democrat party didn't properly vet him, does not make him a legitimate president. He will NEVER be a legitimate president.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 8 pages [ <<    <     2      3     ( 4 )     5      6     NEXT    >> ] 4770 views POST REPLY
HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › Judge Clay Land to birthers.......Get lost!
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 7  Topic Subscribe

Saturday, January 20 - 5:18 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online