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09-08-2009 01:33 PM  8 years agoPost 41
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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again, Fair Tax people. Read up on it. IRS and the tax lawyers will fight it tooth and nail. What does that tell you??
And TinTin, ur wrong again....

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09-08-2009 01:39 PM  8 years agoPost 42
Tintin

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Akershus, Norway

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So you are saying that the 5 % that pays the most tax also are the ones that spent so much it kept your economy going (and now have stopped spending) consequently the remaining 95% has no real influence on your economy....yup sounds very likely...

I'm very interested in hearing your theory about why your economy collapsed...

“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”

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09-08-2009 01:55 PM  8 years agoPost 43
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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simple

the top 5% are so scared of this guy that they are pulling all of their money in off the table AND not spending or investing it in new businesses (aka: new jobs). Like squirrels before winter. Now the middle class, well we're just getting it from all angles: jobs, taxes, home prices, fuel prices, etc. The lower class contributed nothing anyway, so they're a non-factor. Plus, more middle class are being pushed down into lower class status.
What you DO NOT SEEM TO GRASP is that we have ALOT of people that have never, nor will they ever, contribute one single thing to society except to suck of the hind tit. Thats all they do, thats all their relatives do and thats all their offspring will do. I highly doubt you have that there. If you do, I'm sure it's a small minority and it doesn't go back 4 generations deep.

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09-08-2009 02:18 PM  8 years agoPost 44
Tintin

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Akershus, Norway

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Ehhrm, may I remind you that this started way be for "this man" got in charge? In fact it's been building up over long time under "that other guy".... The fuel was a good deal more expensive last fall, before "this guy"

You seem not to grasp that all of the mentioned non-contributing people in fact do buy stuff no matter where the money is coming from and that money goes into many of the small T,D&H businesses....Trump ain't buying his food on the corner grocery store or having his car fixed in the local garage....

Of course they don't dare invest, they've been burnt

It's pretty lame blaming current leadership for what started a long time ago...remember this din't happen over night even if it seems like it did. This is the result of bad judgement over time...

Shouldn't you be more worried about keeping existing jobs rather than creating new ones? Anyhow, it still doesn't matter how many new businesses/jobs they invest in as long as T,D&H doesn't buy their products...

“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”

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09-08-2009 03:11 PM  8 years agoPost 45
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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wow

you so contradict yourself. First of all, our real problems started with Clinton and his belief that all people should own a home regardless of whether they can afford it. Don't EVEN argue that one because I saw it first hand and I mean EVERYDAY first hand - people getting houses when they couldn't pay rent. Thats all on Clinton.
Secondly, yes "those people" do spend their money. But what your simple socialist brain can not grasp is that they DID NOT EARN IT!!!
It was taken from some hard working guy's wallet. To me that's not socialism, that's theft.
Now jobs. Of course I am worried about existing jobs. Protect them first. But at some point you have to create NEW JOBS to get guys like me back to work. The government can NOT CREATE JOBS. They can only stimulate the economy as to create jobs on it's own - via the free market system. The only way to do that is to give tax incentives for those evil rich people to pull their wallets out and start up some new enterprises. Only way - PERIOD!!!!
Gas prices - gimme a break. C'mon!!! That's supply and demand and you know it. This is NOT Obuma's fault, but we will not do anything to help ourselves. They just discovered what geoligists classify as a "GIANT" oil field smack in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico. Do you think we'll do anything with it?? No way. There is one of the largest oil fields ever discovered (and recently too) INSIDE OUR OWN BORDERS in S. Dakota I believe. Will we do anything with that?? Nope.
Why?? Environmentalists. We haven't permitted a new refinery since the 70's!!! We have the clean technology, lets pump that s>>>>t out and get this country going again!! I live on the coast of the Gulf and as everybody knows, we've had a lot of storms come thru in the last few years. We have had MANY drill rigs ripped from their anchorings - and I mean dozens every storm. Guess what??? Not ONE DROP SPILLED!!! Somebody needs to choke off the EPA a little and lets start pumping and refining here where it's needed. Plus think of all the new jobs (and good paying ones at that), that this will create.

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09-08-2009 03:14 PM  8 years agoPost 46
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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fla heli boy

You only pay taxes on what you spend, not what you earn.
Thereby cutting the tax revenue significantly. How are you going to cover that deficit?
before you bring it up, everybody's basic living requirements are tax free in the form of "prebates" allowing everybody to pay for the basic necessities of life without a tax, regardless of income. As fair as it gets
It also creates the largest Govt program in HISTORY. You think welfare was bad, now you have the entire Country waiting on a check each mth from the Govt.

The "Fair Tax" is a gigantic step towards everyone waiting for their Govt check.

Much better is a flat rate tax paid automatically each pay period. There would be NO deductions and that rate would be applied to ANY income over poverty level (about 13k). The rate many think would be about 17% if everyone paid. And we could STILL get rid of the IRS.

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09-08-2009 03:41 PM  8 years agoPost 47
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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no no no no

Ur not following. Why would everybody be waiting on that little insignificant check when every week they go to the bank and deposit THEIR ENTIRE paycheck!! Now, what to do with all of the IRS folks??? Hmmmm, how about moving them over to assist with the prebate system and the enforcement and collection of the consumption (national sales) tax?? We already have the setup with SS and welfare. Whats the diff.??? How many people's SS checks are more than a day late?? Never happens. It's the only thing the gov't does right is write checks.
Plus under this system, you apply for the prebate with all of the info. (how many kids, etc. - INCOME DOES NOT AFFECT THE PREBATE AMOUNT - it's the same for all incomes - tax free necessities of life)
and you are issued a permanent DEBIT card tied to your prebate account. You can use that card to pay for anything you want - your choice. But in effect what that does is put the taxes you would pay on the bare ncessities back in your pocket BEFORE you buy those items. What you chose to do with those funds is entirely up to you.
Look, I'm not bashing you. I had a million questions myself until I read the book. YOU HAVE TO READ IT TO MAKE SENSE. They answer all of these questions you may have in a down to earth, sensical manner.
I'd like to be of more help here, but it was several years ago when Boortz was on local AM radio when I read it. Now that I am spouting off about this to everybody again, I had better go find it and reread it so I don't sound like such a puppet.
Edit: Yeah I was a believer in flat tax too and I still think it would be a better system then what we have now. But this book will explain why the flat tax will not work.

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09-08-2009 04:13 PM  8 years agoPost 48
Tintin

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Akershus, Norway

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Only way - PERIOD!!!!
Strange, we don't do it that way, neither does our neighbours, yet we are not having anywhwere near the problems you are having (and no it's not the oil, we are just about the only ones that benefit from it over here)....so excuse me but it's bs (or propaganda if you want) You won't have one without the other....you cannot create demand (ask Ron if you doubt it), hence if you want to start a business there has to be a market that wants your product and can pay for it. Without that only a fool would finance you and people that have made money for themselves seldom are complete fools...(I know as I have done it...started a business I knew there were a market for with paying customers...)

“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”

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09-08-2009 04:46 PM  8 years agoPost 49
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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see and THERE'S the problem!!! That IS the way we do it here.
You also have to remember a couple HUGE things. What is your population???? Ours: over 300,000,000 Yours: ???? being honest here
Welfare load: can't even guess don't want to look it up Yours: tiny

Our problems are so vast you can't fathom them. How large is your military?? How much foreign aid do you dole out every DAY???
Do you have generations of deadbeats that will never be productive??
What is your legal system like there??? Can I get millions for spilling a cup of coffee on MYSELF??? I could go on and on and on.
You are trying to compare apples and elephant sh**t. You just can't do it.

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09-08-2009 05:13 PM  8 years agoPost 50
Tintin

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Akershus, Norway

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Abt 4,5 mill I guess
Welfare, being a socialistic country I would guess more than yours per capita.... Did a quick search and found we spent almost twice what you do per capita...slightly old figures tho..
Small, we spend about 2/3 of what you do per capita
Jup, we obviously have even more "deadbeats" as we spend more per capita in welfare than you do.
No, so far we have managed to keep silly lawsuits at a reasonable level, but lawyers and some slackers are seeing possibilities...thanks for the inspiration btw
(My underwatercamera manual (bought in the US) tells me not to swap film or lenses under water....to anyone but you guys, that's obvious )

Strange thing, the laws of demand and supply actually are the same for just about any number of consumers whether it's 4 or 300 mill, if that's hard to grasp then look it up...you see the mechanisms are the same...

Can't belive you just considered yourselves to be elephant sht...

“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”

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09-08-2009 05:35 PM  8 years agoPost 51
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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fla heli boy

no no no no

Ur not following.
Yes, Yes, Yes.... I am following. You want to create the LARGEST Govt program EVER.
Why would everybody be waiting on that little insignificant check when every week they go to the bank and deposit THEIR ENTIRE paycheck!!
Why create the largest Govt program EVER? Can you name a Govt program that runs like it should?
We already have the setup with SS and welfare. Whats the diff.???
The "Diff" is that right now about 3-4 Million people get welfare checks from the Govt, 55 Million will get SS in 2009. You want that number to be 303 Million.

How can creating the biggest Govt program in history with EVERY citizen waiting on a check from the Govt be a good idea?
But in effect what that does is put the taxes you would pay on the bare ncessities (sic) back in your pocket BEFORE you buy those items.
Why not just NOT TAKE IT OUT? Why create the BIGGEST GOVT program in HISTORY!
Look, I'm not bashing you. I had a million questions myself until I read the book. YOU HAVE TO READ IT TO MAKE SENSE.
And I am not bashing you.... But, I am not going to support creating the biggest Govt program in history. You want people to be MORE dependent on the Govt, I want them to be LESS dependent.
Yeah I was a believer in flat tax too and I still think it would be a better system then what we have now. But this book will explain why the flat tax will not work.
And creating a system where everyone looks towards the Govt to send them a check will not fix anything.

I could buy into a consumption tax.... But when you start having the Govt send checks to everyone, you lose me.

I refuse to support creating a new powerful Govt agency that hands out checks, the creation of largest Govt entitlement program in history.

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09-08-2009 05:46 PM  8 years agoPost 52
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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I understand. It's just not as complicated as you think. I was of the same thinking as you. I read the book. It changed my mind. Like I said, it was several years ago - when it first came out - that I read it.

And yes TinTin - at this point I do consider ourselves the elephant sh**t. We're bigger than you and we smell bad right now!!

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09-08-2009 05:51 PM  8 years agoPost 53
Tintin

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Akershus, Norway

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I don't think it's that complicated, a little more than give the 5% richest less tax, but not much more. What I learnt about it in school years ago is still valid and it shows every day...(and one of the easiest subjects I've studied actually, the technical stuff is much less obvious at times...)

“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”

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09-08-2009 06:01 PM  8 years agoPost 54
fla heli boy

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cape coral, florida

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I was more talking to Ron about the book, but same still applies to you if you can find it over there. It is a very good read and a very interesting and different look at solving some of our financial/taxation problems. People just dismiss it out of hand. So did I until I finally convinced myself to go buy and read it. It changed my mind. The only people that agree with it are the ones that read it. The only ones that disagree with it are the ones that haven't read it. So unless theres some vodoo brainwashing going on, it must have something good to say.

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09-08-2009 06:05 PM  8 years agoPost 55
Tintin

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Akershus, Norway

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Sorry, I don't see his comments so I didn't know...

“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”

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09-10-2009 05:36 AM  8 years agoPost 56
Edwardn

rrNovice

USA, CA

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Tintin.
You just don't get the main point. We are all amreicans really appretiate you come to our forum, but we really don't appretiate your comments, suggestions ect about how we should build and run our country.
You run your country the way you want to, we don't care (in the mean time we do protect you with our own military), but be wise, please don't tell us how we have to live our lifes.
Belive me, when we will need your advice, we will come to your forums and will ask you, but for now we don't need your economical, political, social and other opinions. Just stay in Norway, Sweden, Germany or wherever you want to and coock and eat your own sh..t.

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09-10-2009 09:35 AM  8 years agoPost 57
Tintin

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Akershus, Norway

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in the mean time we do protect you with our own military)
Yeah right, lot's of US troops around here....only time we see your guys is when we host NATO exercises...and when you store weapons abroad so you don't have to fight a potential war on your own soil...as usual.

And if you are referring to your war on terror, it was pretty safe over here untill your pal GWB decided to fup things. WE didn't have any problems with those guys, you did so cut that crp about protecting us, as you are not, it's all in your paranoid imagination...you only managed to make things more unsafe when you really got them on their toes...

What's "appretiate" ???

“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”

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09-10-2009 09:57 AM  8 years agoPost 58
Edwardn

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USA, CA

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Now it will be safer in Norway since Norway goverment decided to stop buying security survaliance anti-terrorism equipment from Elbit because Elbit is making survaliance equipment for Safety wall between Israel and Gaza. This looks like support for Hamas. This is why it is pretty "safe" in Norway-you exchange your "freedom" on safe life by being friends with terrorists (sorry for straight forward words). BTW, since your goverment decided to stop making business with Elbit, whole our family stop buying any product made in Norway. I know you will say-so what, we can live without your business. Well, first of all it is pretty damn big family counting all memebers (100+ people), secondly we are telling everybody to stop buying Norway products. So enjoy your safe country , but without our money and with your good friends from midle east.

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09-10-2009 11:04 AM  8 years agoPost 59
Tintin

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Akershus, Norway

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Fwiw, we don't support Hamas wrong doings anymore than any other extremists. Neither do we support the Israelis wrong doings, which are plentyful....we have been active mediators in that conflict for decades...

You obviouly don't know what I'd say (and obviously haven't seen my discussion with Dennis and some). You have my understanding for not buying norwegian products, to me it's an acceptable way to make a point, I practise the same towards US products.

“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”

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