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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Can you use a Mini vBar on a large Heli?
09-07-2009 04:31 AM  8 years agoPost 1
SeismicCWave

rrVeteran

Hilo, Hawaii

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What is the difference between the vBar and the Mini vBar. They are both 3 axis. The mini vBar can eliminate the use of a main receiver. What is stopping the mini vBar from being used on a larger machine? Does it have a current limitation for the bigger servos?

TIA

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09-07-2009 07:04 AM  8 years agoPost 2
ehaga

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Bærum, Norway

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The problem is not the servoes, but according to Mikado the mini will have problem with vibrations.

Regards

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09-07-2009 08:41 AM  8 years agoPost 3
TankDirt

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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im sure a smooth machine and the properly placed mini vbar would hold up to a bigger heli. But its quite a risk, and a pointless one at that.

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09-07-2009 11:18 AM  8 years agoPost 4
Al Austria

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Gainesville, FL

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I also heard it was the unit's power bus not being able to handle the current demands of larger servos, sort of akin to an AR6200 VS an AR7000. I doubt it was vibration levels as that is very relative thing.

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09-07-2009 02:49 PM  8 years agoPost 5
jbdww

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Round Rock, Texas

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Or is it a marketing strategy so that there regular V-Bar will sale? You can make your own power bus if you really wont to.

Skids Up
http://www.jbdww.com
http://twitter.com/jbdww/

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09-07-2009 04:27 PM  8 years agoPost 6
SpeedVision

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Grand Rapids, MI USA

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I also heard it was the unit's power bus not being able to handle the current demands of larger servos, sort of akin to an AR6200 VS an AR7000. I doubt it was vibration levels as that is very relative thing.
This is FALSE...per Mr. Mikado himself.

See this post in RR for a few more details (nitro, no less...). http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t538586p1/

Ultimately, Mikado is committed to a 2 unit strategy (system for <1 meter and one for >1 meter) which will likely be scrutinized in the court of public opinion (forums)... We'll see.

When Mikado implements a few of the innovations of the MiniBar into the regular Bar (assuming they will), then most of this will be a moot point because I believe everyone is lured to the Mini-V because of the Rx satellite integration...

Per my conversations with Mikado at IRCHA, they are very committed to the controller+gyro concept for large heli's and they will hold firm on the line between gyro's for large and small heli's.

(Edited post at 9:24 EST, same day)

Flybarless - The future was yesterday...you in?

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09-07-2009 06:54 PM  8 years agoPost 7
Al Austria

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Gainesville, FL

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This is what I was going by, as quoted from this thread: http://helifreak.com/showthread.php...ght=Vbar&page=2
Hey guys,

Dave Dahl here, Kyle Dahl's dad (Kyle is a Team Mikado pilot). This thread was brought to my attention by a U.S. Mikado Field Rep., and I think we need to straighten out the record here a bit.

"Rob43" wrote several posts earlier in this thread that at the XFC, he and I spoke about Kyle's machines and his set-up. That's true I'm sure, as I talked-up the V-Bar and Mikado helis to many attending the XFC.

What needs to be straightened out, is Rob43's impression that Kyle was running a mini-VBar on a 600. Not to hammer on Rob43 here, but he misinterpreted something I said along the way (probably my fault...bad communications skills on my part ). Kyle was NOT running a Mini-VBar on any of his 600's. All Kyle's 600's are equipped with the standard V-Bar, Mikado part # 4010.

As to the mini-VBar, it is true that Mikado does not recommend the new unit be used on larger helis. I guess it would be for the same reasons as why you'd not install a park flyer receiver on a 1/4 scale airplane. For one thing, the power buss in the unit is probably not robust enough to handle the larger "current hungry" digital servos commonly being used on larger helis these days. And, if you ARE running a V-Bar on a larger heli, you DO want to use powerful, digital servos.

So keep the Mini-VBars on the T-Rex 500 or Logo 400 size helis (425mm blade class) or smaller.

Take care,

Dave

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09-07-2009 07:10 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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This is FALSE...per Mr. Mikado himself.
Where did he say that?

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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09-07-2009 07:31 PM  8 years agoPost 9
SpeedVision

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Grand Rapids, MI USA

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http://www.vstabi.de/forum1/read.php?19,32086
Answer: No

I dont know who has created this myth, but its not true.

The Mini is designed for mini Helicopters, thats why it is mini. The regular Unit is designed for bigger or all types of Helicopters. The limitation is the 1m rotor diameter. If you exceed this limit, its up to you to live with possible consequences.

There is no disadvantage to use the regular unit for bigger helicopters, but you get some really important advantage by using a separate Sensor: it can be placed much more flexible, it can be isolated from vibrations by far better than a one unit design. The regular unit hase more connectors, so its easy to get the current in...

so long ... Uli
While Dave's assumption was incorrect, he did clarify the Kyle was using standard V-Bar's, which I too can verify, and his analogy about using a parkflyer Rx on a 1/4 scale is the best analogy I've heard yet!!!!

As the developer/producer Mikado can choose how they intend to support it and they've been clear that they will not support use on heli's with a greater disk than 1 meter. Maybe it's their choice simply on principle, but it's still their choice.

Everyone has the same choice to exceed Mikado's recommendations as long as they understand that they will get no support from them directly.

Thanks for the head's up, Al.

Flybarless - The future was yesterday...you in?

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09-07-2009 08:08 PM  8 years agoPost 10
SeismicCWave

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Hilo, Hawaii

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Thank you for all your information. I really appreciate the discussion.

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10-05-2009 01:36 PM  8 years agoPost 11
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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Well, has anyone tried it yet?

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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10-05-2009 01:38 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Not a large heli but....

I have one on my Logo 500 Works well!

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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10-05-2009 01:47 PM  8 years agoPost 13
genexis

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SG

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i have one for my eRaptor spinning 600mm blades. Check out at http://simplewords.genexis.net

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10-05-2009 06:07 PM  8 years agoPost 14
Thomas Moore

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California

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I was the one running the mini vbar on my aurora, and the only problem I had was mounting, so I chose to go with a regular vbar in the end. It flew just as well as my current setup.

Thomas Moore Team Avant Team Edge

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10-05-2009 06:19 PM  8 years agoPost 15
Azlum

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Limington, ME - USA

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I have one on my Outrage 550. Works great. No issues.

The thing about the power bus not being sufficient is a rumor, and false. There was a statement from Ulrich himself that proves it, but I can't remember where I found it... perhaps on the V-bar forums.

- Azlum

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10-05-2009 06:23 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Azlum

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Limington, ME - USA

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Here.... I found it for you guys.

This is a quote from Ulrich himself on the Vstabi forum
The limitation of the mini is the power bus not able to supply enough current to the servos?

Answer: No

I dont know who has created this myth, but its not true.

The Mini is designed for mini Helicopters, thats why it is mini. The regular Unit is designed for bigger or all types of Helicopters. The limitation is the 1m rotor diameter. If you exceed this limit, its up to you to live with possible consequences.

There is no disadvantage to use the regular unit for bigger helicopters, but you get some really important advantage by using a separate Sensor: it can be placed much more flexible, it can be isolated from vibrations by far better than a one unit design. The regular unit hase more connectors, so its easy to get the current in, you do not need additional external equipment. There are more reasons so not exceed the limit.

- Azlum

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10-05-2009 06:59 PM  8 years agoPost 17
Janis

rrApprentice

Århus, Denmark

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Hi,

Here is a vid where Timo flys the mini v bar in his Rigid 90 ship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JFWygcpLIc

The Problem is as Ulrich mentioned that the powerbus cant handle High current draw..........BUT i would just pull the red and black wire of the servo plug and connect it to the batterie/lipo directly. Then there is no problem to use the mini v bar on a bigger Heli. I will test this next year

Regards Janis

...exist something better than V-bar and women...

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10-05-2009 08:20 PM  8 years agoPost 18
Thomas Moore

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California

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That powerbus issue has already been debunked. The powerbus is actually more sturdy in the mini than in the standard.

Thomas Moore Team Avant Team Edge

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10-05-2009 08:26 PM  8 years agoPost 19
fla heli boy

rrKey Veteran

cape coral, florida

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yep - it's right in the above quote from THE GUY...

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10-05-2009 09:00 PM  8 years agoPost 20
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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The only power problem is to get power INTO the Mini-vbar; since the number of ports are limited, if you solve that with Y-cables or otherwise, there is no problem with power.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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