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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › metal insulator issue
09-06-2009 07:21 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Paul-PJH

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The Netherlands

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Hi,

Recently I bought a metal insulator at Daves. I believe the brand is Adla. I replaced the original plastic on my Spectra and discovered that the holes where the carb is bolted on were slightly shifted with respect to the plastic one. So I had to rearrange the throttle lever of the carb to be able to open en close the valve fully.

After that I tried to start the engine, but I failed. So I was opening the throttle more and more till the engine would start. What I discovered was that I had to open the valve much more with respect to the original plastic insulator. I also checked afterwards if I had mounted the gaskets correctly but they were OK.

My question is, is this normal. Did you had the same experience?

Thanks,

Paul

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09-06-2009 08:13 PM  8 years agoPost 2
ddavison

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Brownsville, Pennsylvania

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I have use the Z alum block. There are no differences in settings. Make sure the small hole in the back of the carb is not blocked by the gasket and on both sides of the block and engine are all lined up and open. Also make sure the mounting bolts tighten the carb securly and are not bottoming out.

DaveDavison,GasGob,WhiplashGas,Spectra,JRXG11MV,12X

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09-06-2009 08:24 PM  8 years agoPost 3
copperclad

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NY

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Hi
as ddavison mentioned with a Z-RC alloy manifold , two of the bolts will bottom and not allow the gaskets to seat , your setup may not be like this , but it is worth checking ,HTH

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09-06-2009 08:57 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Paul-PJH

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The Netherlands

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Hi,

The holes in the insulator, gaskets and the carb are all on the same side. In another gasser I use the Z_RC without problems, but this one is produced by Adla and is a bit different probably.

Paul

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09-06-2009 09:12 PM  8 years agoPost 5
ddavison

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Brownsville, Pennsylvania

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I tried to find it on Daves site but could not, I wanted to see a photo. Do you have a part number or link ? Dave

DaveDavison,GasGob,WhiplashGas,Spectra,JRXG11MV,12X

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09-06-2009 09:24 PM  8 years agoPost 6
Paul-PJH

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The Netherlands

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09-07-2009 04:20 AM  8 years agoPost 7
ddavison

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Brownsville, Pennsylvania

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Look the same as the Z-RC ones so there should not any problem with them.

DaveDavison,GasGob,WhiplashGas,Spectra,JRXG11MV,12X

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09-07-2009 07:21 AM  8 years agoPost 8
Paul-PJH

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The Netherlands

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Unfortunately I had a problem with it. I checked everything and will try it later again. Otherwise I will use the standard insulator again.

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09-07-2009 12:33 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Helizrule

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Lake Ariel, PA

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Paul, I recently purchased the same ADA "blue" insulator and have had no problems at all with it on my G231PUH. Just check that the teflon gaskets have all the holes punched out as mine still had some material left in place from manufacturing. I hope this helps.
Chris

One mile of road will take you one mile. One mile of runway will take you anywhere in the world.

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09-07-2009 01:26 PM  8 years agoPost 10
Paul-PJH

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The Netherlands

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I am trying to explain the change in behaviour since I switched the insulator. Could anybody tell how the engine will react when the hole is (partially) blocked? Do you need to open the gas valve a lot more to start the engien or....

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09-07-2009 01:37 PM  8 years agoPost 11
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Do you need to open the gas valve a lot more to start the engien or....
The insulator block should have nothing to do with the position of the butterfly for starting. It is not a good idea to open the butterfly past fast idle when starting. It does no good anyway. Any engine stands a better chance of starting at idle because it is the richest setting.

If you were looking to dry out a flooded engine then you would pull off the wire and open the valve wide for a few pulls. This rarely is necessary for these engines unless the carb is screwed up in which case you will never start it anyway.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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09-07-2009 03:26 PM  8 years agoPost 12
j.8

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Denmark

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Hi Paul
Could anybody tell how the engine will react when the hole is (partially) blocked?
It would make the engien run lean, that`s aleast
what to me one time, due to a not corect mountet
gasket in my z-rc insulator, witch resultet in a
(partially) blocked hole.

Regards Bo

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09-07-2009 06:40 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Paul-PJH

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The Netherlands

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Hi,

I don't think there is any problem with the carb. It is rather new and worked perfectly using the plastic insulator. Maybe it was flooded, because I used an electric starter?

When the engine is running lean, does this have impact on starting the engine?

Regards,

Paul

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09-07-2009 08:00 PM  8 years agoPost 14
j.8

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Denmark

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Hi Paul
When the engine is running lean, does this have impact on starting the engine?
If that`s a question to my experience with the
(partially) blocked hole, due to my gasket mistake,
it reved up in nor, allmost like if I had made a hot start
in idlup.

Regards Bo

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09-07-2009 09:08 PM  8 years agoPost 15
Paul-PJH

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The Netherlands

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Hi Bo,

OK, this is fortunately not the case. I think I figured out the cause, but I have to test it tomorrow.

My throttle set-up is mechanically set-up in an exponential way (described somewhere in the gasser forum). The metal isolator has not exact the same dimensions as my plastic one, causing the carb to rotate a bit. Result is that the valve can't be closed with the original carb lever position. I corrected this by reassigning the position of the carb lever. However what I didn't think of is that the angle of the carb lever was now different when closed. Result is that the exponential way of the throttle set-up will also be changed (less sensitive to a change of the throttle servo). This causes that I have to move the throttle servo much more to get the same opening of the valve.

This issue is hardly noticeable when you have a linear set-up, so that's why other people probably had no issue.

I am pretty sure that this is causing the issue. I will test it tomorrow and reply to this topic.

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09-08-2009 07:10 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Paul-PJH

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The Netherlands

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Hi,

Today I switched the insulator back to the original plastic one and tried to start the engine. Result: NOTHING! Only with a large opening of the valve the engine would start (somehow).

I am out of ideas. It used to work before I switched the insulator and now it doesn't work at all! Is there maybe a problem with the sparkplug?

Anybody has an idea?

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09-08-2009 07:23 PM  8 years agoPost 17
pgkevet

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Wales

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It ought to be simple... if you have a fule mist and you have a spark then you ought to get ignition.
Pull the plug and see if you get good fuel spray out when you pull
Check if you have a spark (see noggin the nog thread)
Otherwise it's down to a plugged muffler...

pgk

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09-08-2009 07:44 PM  8 years agoPost 18
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Paul

Do you have a choke fitted to your motor?Have you looked at the throttle valve to see how far it is really opening when you try to start.The Mallory set up can be deceiving as you have pointed out there is quite a delay before the valve actually moves.Does the motor run really fast when it runs ? Does it run OK other than this fault?

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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09-08-2009 08:06 PM  8 years agoPost 19
Paul-PJH

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The Netherlands

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First of all much thanks for your responses.

Choke is open. Further I am looking at the total displacement of the throttle lever. This displacement is much more than in my other gasser with the same engine and still the engine doesn't want to start. Actually I got it running a little bit last sunday with all trim plus subtrim and get the feeling that it doesn't want to start anymore now at all. Opening the throttle is not the solution.

There is fuel spray. I will get a new spark plug to be sure. The old one is the Champion RZ7C. Should I get the same one, or is it better to get another brand? There are some threads about it I believe.

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09-08-2009 08:39 PM  8 years agoPost 20
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Paul

If your engine was running fine before the change to the alloy insulator and now it wont,logic would say that there has to be a problem in the assembly somewhere, the pulse port hole must be clear right from the small hole in the engine through to the carb to operate the fuel "pumping" action,if all these holes are clear check that your carb is clean inside and all your gaskets are pulling up tight and sealing.Leave the plug out take the carb off and turn the motor over and leave the plug out to let it vent for a while,make sure your fuel is fresh.Do not use sealant on the gaskets as this can block the pulse ports.Dry your plug if wet and let it stand.Try again.Do you have a spare plug?

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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