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HelicopterMain Discussion › New Battery Could Recharge in Seconds
09-04-2009 08:04 PM  8 years agoPost 1
VooDooXrrElite Veteran - San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo) - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/03/superbattery/

A new battery material that recharges 100 times faster than the lithium-ion in your laptop has been revealed by researchers at MIT.

The discovery could lead to cellphone-sized batteries that could be charged in 10 seconds.

"The ability to charge and discharge batteries in a matter of seconds rather than hours may open up new technological applications and induce lifestyle changes," wrote materials scientists Gerbrand Ceder and Byoungwoo Kang Wednesday in the journal Nature.

In energy storage, there has always been a trade-off between the amount of energy a material could store and how quickly you could discharge it. Batteries were pretty good at storing energy (although not nearly as good as oil), but getting energy into and out of them was tough. Ultracapacitors, and their cousins, supercapacitors, can deliver a lot of charge really quickly, but it takes 20 times more of their materials to store the same energy as a comparable battery.

The new battery material appears to solve that problem by creating a "fast-lane" for ions to move around the lithium iron phosphate material. By applying a special surface coating to the old material, they allow the ions to speed around the battery at rates that are nearly unimaginable.

Rob Farrington of the National Renewable Energy Laboratory’s advanced vehicle group, called the battery’s ability to deliver energy "remarkable."

But questions remain. Fast-charging might be convenient, Farrington noted, but it requires running a large amount of current to the battery, which he worried would reduce the battery’s life.

"High current means lots of heating. If you have high temperatures, you have to ask the question, are you detrimentally affecting the life of the battery?" he said. "The answer is that it’s going to shorten the life."

The MIT duo’s Nature paper only presents data through 50 charge/recharge cycles, but what’s there is promising: There’s nearly no drop in capacity.

But as any laptop owner knows, the more charging cycles you go through, the less energy your battery stores. The same battery that let you work for three hours a couple years ago only yields an hour-and-a-half at the coffee shop now.

That’s one place where ultracapacitors are likely to retain their advantage over just about any battery.

"There are a lot of applications where you have to charge or discharge hundreds of times a day and in that, ultracapacitors have a very clear advantage," said Joel Schindall, who is heading a separate MIT research effort to develop carbon nanotube-based ultracapacitors.

Still, ultracap producers, though they’ve made inroads in niche markets. have had a hard time coming up with ultracapacitors that store anywhere near as much energy per weight or volume as a lithium-ion battery. Schindall’s effort made waves in 2006 when the MIT Technology Review raved, "A breakthrough technology is holding forth the promise of charging electronic gadgets in minutes, never having to replace a battery again, and dropping the cost of hybrid cars."

But the effort has "stretched out," Schindall said — and he’s not sure when his ultracapacitors will be ready to commercialize.

"I don’t know whether that will be a week or a month or a year," he said.

Batteries, and all kinds of energy-storage devices, have a notoriously difficult time scaling out of the laboratory into production. We’ve previously likened the scale challenge to that faced by high school cafeterias. Even if the lunch ladies try to emulate home cooking or a restaurant kitchen, it’s just fundamentally harder to cook for 3,000 people than it is to cook for 30 or three. Most of the time, you can’t just make the process bigger, you need a new process.

And directly tied into the ability to create an industrial-scale process is the issue of cost, which Farrington said was always one of the barriers to the adoption of energy-storage technology.

Still, Ceder is optimistic. He believes his batteries could make it to the market in two to three years. The tech has already been licensed by two companies. One, A123 Systems, is a U.S. startup that’s partnering with General Motors on the Chevy Volt’s battery. The other, Umicore, supplies materials to battery manufacturers across the world.

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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09-04-2009 10:30 PM  8 years agoPost 2
mylee

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Rochester, UK

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We keep hearing about this. Meaningless until it's on the market IMHO

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09-04-2009 11:01 PM  8 years agoPost 3
blbills

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Provo, UT

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Cool stuff. Sign me up for a beta test

Brian

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09-04-2009 11:08 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Shawn Behrens

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DEEP IN THE BOG

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And the charger capable of charging a 6s 5000mah in 10 seconds will only set you back $100,000.00

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09-04-2009 11:18 PM  8 years agoPost 5
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Picture looks like slightly burned mary jane. So what are they smoking ?

I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?

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09-05-2009 12:01 AM  8 years agoPost 6
jackheli

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Vancouver - Canada

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Picture looks like slightly burned mary jane. So what are they smoking ?
That's what the lunch ladies tried to cook

It's easy to find an excuse to do wrong. Hard is not to find an excuse to do right.

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09-05-2009 01:20 AM  8 years agoPost 7
MikeC

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Mosinee, WI

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And the charger capable of charging a 6s 5000mah in 10 seconds will only set you back $100,000.00
And require a small portable nuclear reactor to power it!

Century Swift, TREX 450, Blade MCX, Spektrum DX7

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09-05-2009 01:25 AM  8 years agoPost 8
Yug

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UK. Herts

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VooDooX - thanks for the find. Haven't kept upto date for a few months. Technical details seem to be very limited but can't help thinking the advancement may well be related to coatings incorporating nanotube technologies. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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09-05-2009 01:32 AM  8 years agoPost 9
blighty

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uk

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so how thick would your wires have to be to handle the amps to charge 5000mah in 10 sec.

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09-05-2009 01:45 AM  8 years agoPost 10
Yug

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UK. Herts

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Thats 1800 Amps which would be about 13 guage wire. However, supercooled gold would be much thinner.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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09-05-2009 02:44 AM  8 years agoPost 11
blighty

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uk

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can your typical car 12v deliver 1800amps?

do you see where I'm going with this

shut up Neil........ right on!

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09-05-2009 06:53 PM  8 years agoPost 12
702nitro

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Las Vegas, NV

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In my honest professional opinion, this would require 1.21 giga-watts of
electricity.

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09-05-2009 07:48 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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So in fact this isn't an ultra capacitor, it's a flux capacitor

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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09-06-2009 04:02 AM  8 years agoPost 14
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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flux capacitor
I read recently that a battery's capacity for flux is inversely proportional to the angularity of its detangulation.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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09-06-2009 06:21 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Master Rick

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The Moon

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i have no time for this discussion im heading back to the future.

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09-06-2009 03:38 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Jlerch

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Parrish, Florida

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Why this won't work....

What would it take to recharge a six cell 5000mAh LiPo battery in 10 seconds?

10 seconds is 1/360th of an Hour. A normal 1c charge would have you pumping 5 amps for 1 hour to recharge it (Yes, CC then CV charging patterns required for LiPo batteries actually take longer than this, but lets ignore that for a moment)

So 5 amps at 1 hour is the same as 1800 amps for 1/360th of an hour.

Final charge voltage is 24.4vdc, so final moments of the charge require 24.4vdc * 1800 Amps = 43,920 watts.

Assume we are going to attempt to utilize a normal 220vac clothes dryer outlet to power our charger. How many amps will it take?

Easy, 43,902 watts / 220vac = 199.63 Amps :eek

If your home is equipped with a 200amp utility service, the only socket in your house that will deliver 220vac @ 200 amps is the one the UTILITY METER plugs into!

I happen to have a 50 amps 220vac socket that my Tig welder plugs into. I assume this is probably the largest outlet available for intallation in a typical residential environment.

That means we are limited to 220vac at 50 amps or 11,000 watts.

11,000 watts / 24.4vdc = 450 amps or a charge time of 40 seconds for a 5000mAh six cell lipo.

James Lerch - Tampa Bay FL

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09-06-2009 05:56 PM  8 years agoPost 17
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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40 seconds is good

or 6 minutes on a 120V circuit at 10 amps

When an electric car can hold as much energy in it's batteries as a full tank of gas and it can be re-charged as quick as refilling the old gas tank . . . . then you'll be there.

Currently gasoline has about 100 times more energy storage per pound than LiPo batteries 0.45Mj/Kg vs 45Mj/Kg - - - 57Wh/LB vs 5,700Wh/LB

. . . and hydrogen is three times more than gasoline.

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09-13-2009 03:01 AM  8 years agoPost 18
mstram

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Toronto,Ont,Canada

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When an electric car can hold as much energy in it's batteries as a full tank of gas and it can be re-charged as quick as refilling the old gas tank . . . . then you'll be there.
We probably already have the technology, the oil compannies have no doubt squashed it (for now ... the same people are positioning themselves to be in control of the new tech)

Mike

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09-13-2009 03:11 PM  8 years agoPost 19
Wingman77

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Pulaski Tennessee

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the oil compannies have no doubt squashed it
lmao

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09-14-2009 08:24 PM  8 years agoPost 20
VooDooX

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San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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oil companys squash all!!!

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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