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HelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Simple mod to prevent frame split
09-04-2009 03:33 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Ive had a hinkie tail.......Going over the list of possible causes I thought about set screws backing out of the TT dog receivers. Easy enough to check the tail using the access hole or removing it. checking the tail trans out shaft is another matter.
So I tried this on an old dead frame. Have not done it to a good frame yet but unless some sees something I dont, I cant see the down side.....

Except the hole in the frame, it could be smaller.

RIP ROMAN

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09-04-2009 07:13 PM  8 years agoPost 2
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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The only potential drawback I see is now you're going to let nitro oil in there. Probably not too big a deal. imo - good idea.

If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.

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09-04-2009 08:06 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Gearhead

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Vt

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I never had any Set Screws come loose on anything, use locktite and tighten them down..

""Ive had a hinkie tail""

I don't get it, never heard it, what's a "hinkie tail", maybe we can help..

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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09-04-2009 08:15 PM  8 years agoPost 4
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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I've had one come loose before. It was also loctited. It sucked. Since then I use red loctite on anything to do with the TT assembly. Make damn sure it ain't coming apart.

I'm guessing a "hinkey" tail is one that's randomly kicking out?

If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.

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09-04-2009 08:32 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Ive never had any come loose myself but when Im chasin' down a problem I need to KNOW an item is not the cause.

Hinkie tail? You guys never heard the term hinkie? As in there is something hinkie going on here? A bit off kilter, off, or just not right.

Problem is the nose will kick, just a bit and is very sensitive. I checked all set screws, re foamed my gyro mount, played with gain (401), changed main gear. In a hover the nose will kick to the right (as viewed from tail) and it will occasionally start to wag slowly then settle down. Im getting pretty heavy marbles in the main tank. On this build I cleaned and repacked with a greaser, every bearing. all were smooth as glass or I replaced them w/ new (after packing).

I have never had a one way go out, so Im wondering if that may be the cause here. Except I never hear an increase in the motor RPM at a "kick". I'll change the Tail servo next and maybe the pitch slider (has some play, like 1/62"-1/32" but that should not do it as all the play is "loaded out" in flight. Gyro will be last. all ideas will be checked and appreciated.

Dang, never heard of hinkie, where have you guys been living?

RIP ROMAN

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09-04-2009 08:40 PM  8 years agoPost 6
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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Must be a yank expression.

Anyway, other stuff to check...

Are the tail slider supports moving around on the boom? Glued in place?
Excessive vibration in the heli in general?
Does the servo move nice and smooth if you push against it while moving it slowly from one extreme to the other with the rudder stick?
Set screws in the TT assy all tight (I assume so at this point).
Erm.. High gain? I got nothing.

If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.

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09-04-2009 08:54 PM  8 years agoPost 7
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Funny I was gonna say, "where you guys been livin', Canada?"

RIP ROMAN

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09-04-2009 09:06 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Gearhead

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"hinkie",, yes, I have heard of "hanky",,, usually followed by "panky"

as for your sensitive Tail,, how much Expo do you use, I use 55% and it's great,, another thing, how far out is the Ball on your Rudder Arm, use about 50% Expo and mount your Ball around 12mms out on the Arm..

as for the Kicking, I never had it, lucky I guess,, I would think it's mechanical or electrical, bad Tuning could cause a Wag,,

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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09-04-2009 09:52 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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No comments on the One way bearing? Im down to that or electronics. The tail set up is the same as its been for many many flights. The 401 has been around and uh....close to under ground more than a few high impact crashes but looks perfect. Oh I have not used tail expo, at about 20% on cyclics.

RIP ROMAN

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09-04-2009 09:58 PM  8 years agoPost 10
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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I suppose one way bearing is possible. But any time it's failed on me, it's just locked up rather than letting go. Could it be engine misfiring?

If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.

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09-04-2009 10:01 PM  8 years agoPost 11
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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do you have a spare, or someone local with a spare gyro you could swap out with and try out?

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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09-04-2009 10:13 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Gearhead

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Vt

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"no Rudder Expo"

well then,, add some Rudder Expo, 30 to 50 %, it helps make the heli more enjoyable to fly !!! it will help by taking some of you mind off the Rudder Stick !!!

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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09-04-2009 10:21 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Blade_Master1

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Canada

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The oneway either locks up or slips suddenly underload when defective.
Auto time

I would suspect mechanical check your tail gears

how old is the TT bearing ?

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09-05-2009 12:20 AM  8 years agoPost 14
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Tail gears are new and re checked. TT has seen one crash and is 5 flights old, yes its not perfectly straight, have not found one that is. Marbles in the main fuel tank screams bad bearing but they are all good, Im sure of it, well as sure as I can be. (bearings were a special mission this build).

Yes I have another 401 but its mounted on the Raven w/my last piece of gyro tape.......I'll switch out servos first, then and after I have a new supply of gyro tape, Ill try that. BTW Gyro tape is my pet peeve. What a rip off, its like 25 cents worth of foam and glue...

Never used expo from the start (didnt understand it just yet) I use it now on cyclics, just never tried it on the tail. Ill give it a try after I get this sorted.

So sounds like the one way is not probable....kind of a bummer, it was my "most likely" candidate....

This rebuild has been full of, well its not been smooth.

You KNOW, or should, I'll keep at it. Thanks for all the help guys.

RIP ROMAN

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09-05-2009 01:22 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Blade_Master1

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Canada

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Time to get out the big guns

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09-05-2009 03:42 AM  8 years agoPost 16
oldfart

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Vancouver, Canada

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Im getting pretty heavy marbles in the main tank.
For me this is the key symptom to your problem.

I will bet that your idles screw is set too lean and the motor is pre-igniting causing a high frequency vibration that your gyro is reading.

You may also want to check the teeth on the crown gear and on the inside of the maingear...any that may be worn or mising here can also cause this.

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09-05-2009 03:50 AM  8 years agoPost 17
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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fuel is perfectly calm until lift off. I have been chasin' good motor tune, poor idle, ruff transition but fine at head speed and good finger temp on back plate.

RIP ROMAN

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09-05-2009 05:47 AM  8 years agoPost 18
Blade_Master1

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Canada

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just an idea
is the clutch clearing the intermediate gear ?
is the pinion rubbing on the inside top of the main gear ?

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09-05-2009 09:04 PM  8 years agoPost 19
Gearhead

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Vt

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""Ill give it a try after I get this sorted""

what,, man,, just give her some Rudder Expo, you will love it, it will get your mind off the Rudder Stick so you can think of other things..

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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09-05-2009 10:32 PM  8 years agoPost 20
Blade_Master1

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Canada

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Expo

That's very good advice
I use 20% on the tail because when I use the collective I keep inputing tail movement.

I may have to increase a little more

Does or has anyone tried dual rates on the tail ?

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HelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › Simple mod to prevent frame split
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