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HelicopterMain Discussion › best position to start a piro flip
09-02-2009 12:33 AM  8 years agoPost 1
FlaG8r

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Florida

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Getting pretty proficient at piro flipping (on the sim!) and I've noticed that when I start to flip if I initiate it when the nose is pointed towards me and I start with up elevator input it seems to drop into the smoothest.

Is this the case or not?

Life is tough, it's tougher if you're stupid

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09-02-2009 01:16 AM  8 years agoPost 2
helidevil

rrElite Veteran

Brunswick, ME

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i like starting upside-down, tail in. or kind of transfer into one from the previous manuver. where ever the heli may be i just give the right imput and fine tune from there.

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09-02-2009 01:49 AM  8 years agoPost 3
LaurenceGough

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Reading, UK

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I find it easiest from a upright constant piro and when the tail goes to the right (left side in).

www.laurencegough.com
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09-02-2009 03:29 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Stykz

rrApprentice

Oldham/ England

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That is one move i would love to be able to do,but i can't even get close even on the sim

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09-02-2009 04:08 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Aox

rrApprentice

Irvine, CA

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IMO, you should be able to initiate a piro flip from any orientation. Half piros flips are incredibly useful, say, flopping from a skids away tailslide into an inverted tailfirst orientation, then into a hurricane, or backwards inverted away from yourself in some other direction.

If you're talking about a constant piro flip/chaos-type manuever, then I always start it with the nose pointed away, and key my flips on the nose away upright, and in, inverted.

If you're just stirring sticks, and not "flying" the manuever, you're going to limit yourself going further.

Just my 2c.

-Aox

Synergy N9~/~Trex250-450-600N~/~Logo 500 3D~/~Rave 3D~/~Mini-Titan A109K2
AMA #902257 - OCMA

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09-02-2009 04:13 PM  8 years agoPost 6
playfair

rrKey Veteran

Rochester, NY

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I too start with the nose pointed away, with forward elevator.
You do have to "fly" through it to have control. Prerequisite is continuous controlled pirouetting, both upright and inverted.


The sky is our canvas

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09-02-2009 04:44 PM  8 years agoPost 7
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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I just started trying them a few weeks ago and there hard to start and get going.I start tail in,move left stick right and the right stick left.I need to get a new video,sense I put the revmax on and good servos I can get 3-4 good flips in a row and keep them in one spot..

Watch at YouTube

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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09-02-2009 05:11 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Aox

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Irvine, CA

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Well, FH450, from what I see of your vid, I'd recommend a couple things.

One, start working on your piros. Slow, controlled, and on purpose. You don't piro much at all, and when you do, it's wild crazy piros.

You ultimately want to be able to slowly piro, and control the heli in a circuit while doing so, using small corrections and nudges.

Two, you do have a SEEEERIOUS case of "tail in syndrome". You move out of your comfort zone of tail in, and when you panic, you snap right back to tail in. It looks like, oddly enough, you're more comfortable with nose in, than side in. The way you "whip" the tail around to nose in and "grab it" makes it look like that. You don't do much, if any, slow controlled piro work, where your orientation is constantly changing.

Your funnels look really good though! It's amusing to see the tail in mode, then transition in a really nice looking funnel, then SNAP back to tail in mode.

What I've found with piroflips, done correctly, is that they're a sequence of making sure the heli is in certain attitudes when the nose is in certain places. I started with "half piros" where I went from tail in upright, to tail in inverted, then I learned how to go back. This is doing one half of a piro during each half flip. Then, over time, after I felt very comfortable with that, I started working on a full piro per half flip, where you go from tail in upright, to nose in inverted. The helis is doing one complete piro per half flip. Then do the same stick movement to get it upright again.

It took me a long time to get this stuff down, much more than I would've liked, but I think learning things by their fundamentals will give me the building blocks I need to be more creative in the future. I'm starting to work on piroflips the other direction now, piroing to the right, which is starting out as "ok, both sticks scoop towards each other" and is really ugly hehe.

Anyway, that's all my opinion. Your milage may vary

-Aox

Synergy N9~/~Trex250-450-600N~/~Logo 500 3D~/~Rave 3D~/~Mini-Titan A109K2
AMA #902257 - OCMA

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09-02-2009 05:16 PM  8 years agoPost 9
tr0cks

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NJ, 08344

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well i just close my eyes and hope i choose the right stop. lol

I remember when sex was safe and Heli's where dangerous.

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09-02-2009 05:32 PM  8 years agoPost 10
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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Aox,your right about the tail in stuff.Ive only been flying for 1 year 5 months now so its a habbit I need to break.I do alot of nose in,side to side stuff but when im being recorded I guess I get scared i'll screw somthing up haha.I was told by another guy at our club that my tail is too hot, I need to turn my piro speed down so i'll do that today.I allways push myself kinda hard so i'll get it down for sure by next summer (I hope).Thanks for the advice .

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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09-02-2009 06:07 PM  8 years agoPost 11
T-Rex-Flyer

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Panama City, Fl

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FlyingHigh450... Thanks for putting up the video and opening yourself up to feedback.

Aox... Any video's of you're fling skills for us to enjoy?

If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter.

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09-02-2009 08:13 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Aox

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Irvine, CA

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You're welcome, FH. I'm definitely far from a Szabo, but I like to think I've got a good understanding about what's going on. Definitely not trying to tell you what to do, but just what worked for me.

Trex-Flyer, unfortunately, I don't have anything but static shots, but I hope to remedy that eventually I have a couple onboard videos from my Logo from last year though, but no 3D is done at all. I was freaked out by running without a canopy, and it's not representative of the last year's skill building, but here's the first one I did from March '08 The cam thing was a lot of fun, and I've been considering setting up an actual AP rig and doing some side jobs.

Watch at YouTube

-Aox

Synergy N9~/~Trex250-450-600N~/~Logo 500 3D~/~Rave 3D~/~Mini-Titan A109K2
AMA #902257 - OCMA

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09-02-2009 10:15 PM  8 years agoPost 13
VooDooX

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San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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i find clockwise piros much easier but thats just me also i start tail in and start stiring top left i like the heli tumbling away from me

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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09-03-2009 02:22 AM  8 years agoPost 14
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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Anytime I post a video I allways hope someone can give me some advice to better my flying.Went out today and cought myself doing the tail in flying again,not alot but enough that I noticed haha.I really need to break the habbit,I did do alot of side in tictocs,inverted hovering so next video I post will be alot of side in,nose in flying.I can do it pretty good and do it comfortable but its the habbit of allways flying tail in when I started the hobby.If you watch any of my videos please give me all the advice you want cause my ears are allways open .

Yes Aox,get someone to record for ya,im allways down to watch other people fly .

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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09-03-2009 02:40 PM  8 years agoPost 15
FlaG8r

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Florida

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Back to the topic....anyone else want to share what position they start piro flips in?

Life is tough, it's tougher if you're stupid

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09-03-2009 03:26 PM  8 years agoPost 16
AaronJohnson

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mason,MI

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I am still working on them, but I have been starting from any position. I think that is important to be able to start from any position when piro flipping. Reason being we must be able to see the heli from any orientation and instantly know what input to give it in order to do a CONTROLLED piro flip so starting from any postion shouldnt be an issue. I think if we arent comfortable from all orientations then we shouldnt be doing piro flips yet, we should be working on those orientations first. To me, doing a piro flip is more then banging the tail rotor and stirring the heck outta the left stick. It is being able to absolutly control the heli the whole time and position it where we want. Like I said I am still working on them but that is my thoughts and what is working for me while I am learning these piro moves.

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09-03-2009 04:03 PM  8 years agoPost 17
jsenicka

rrProfessor

Eagle River, WI

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My favorite position is standing at a flight station, facing the heli. Feet slightly apart, hands on the transmitter, and butt clenched tightly

Jim Senicka
Team Manager, GrandRC Flight Team

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09-03-2009 04:05 PM  8 years agoPost 18
VooDooX

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San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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butt clenched tightly
LOL +1

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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09-03-2009 04:25 PM  8 years agoPost 19
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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My favorite position is standing at a flight station, facing the heli. Feet slightly apart, hands on the transmitter, and butt clenched tightly
and when i stand next to you i want full football padding on and full faced helmet...........lol

pieces are good for fall off when you fly......

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09-03-2009 06:13 PM  8 years agoPost 20
rotormonkey

rrKey Veteran

Ottawa, ON - Canada

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I start 'em from pretty well any orientation. fwiw, when I started learning them on the sim, I just couldn't get it trying to do it slow and controlled. I got to half flip then boned up the inverted back to upright, so I just said screw it and started stirring the sticks like a retard.

After enough crashing, and thinking about wtf I did wrong afterwards eventually I started getting better and better. As I got better I learned to slow them down, and make 'em smoother. Now I can do 'em all day long a foot off the deck in the sim. I still suck at them in real life though.

If it can't hover, it ain't worth flying.

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