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HelicopterOff Topics › Ford's new diesel.... not sure what to say
09-01-2009 12:02 PM  8 years agoPost 1
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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I just looked at the article. I just want to say I hope Ford has good luck with it. I for one am so glad I still have my Dodge. No EGR, No Cat...

ARTICLE

Anyway... this so-called Single Sequential Turbo the article states "a twin turbo setup in a single package". That is so far from the truth. It's a single turbo.... period. The two compressor wheels are identical albeit mirror images of each other. They are both mounted together on the same shaft. No independence. It's a single charger with a double compressor wheel. That in no way makes it a twin. True twins operate independently of each other.

This engine was designed from a total emissions point of view. I guess this is the trend. Again, thanks to Cummins and Duramax you can still get a diesel that's not an emissions engine from the ground up.

The aluminum heads are probably a good thing as long as they get the gasketing right.

Did you see it has two separate cooling systems? One to cool the engine and one to cool the EGR and the intercooler? One runs at 194 deg and the other at 122 Deg.

This one is surely a wait and see. Problem is who wants to be the guinea pig? Are there enough tried and true Ford lovers out there that will "test" this Mexican motor for Ford LOL.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-01-2009 12:34 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Dblex

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Texas

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Actually, they are thinking ahead. There is a new diesel coming.....should start seeing it in about 2 years or so. Much cheaper than gasoline.

Way to go Ford!

Highly Medicated for your protection......

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09-01-2009 02:53 PM  8 years agoPost 3
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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At least they are thinking. What do you mean by a new diesel? Fuel or engine?

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-01-2009 02:57 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Damper

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Point Blank TX USA

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If have to hand it to ford no bailouts for that company and I would be glad to be the guniea pig!

Full Throttle Spooning Leads To Forking

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09-01-2009 03:12 PM  8 years agoPost 5
SteveH

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Texas

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There is a new diesel coming.....should start seeing it in about 2 years or so. Much cheaper than gasoline.
Where did you get this information and can you give us a link?

I checked with an engineer friend of mine in "the business", and he says there is no such thing coming. The closest is a synthetic Diesel made from natural gas or coal, but it won't be cheaper, and it is a ways out.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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09-02-2009 12:01 AM  8 years agoPost 6
JasonJ

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North Idaho

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The turbo compressors are visually identical, but the two compressors are tuned to provide boost at different rpm ranges from each other but it still functions like conventional sequential turbos. The whole point is to get boost throughout the rpm range. They say this turbo does that, so who cares how it is done. I like the looks of this engine. If this engine is as good as they say it is, it will open the door for smaller versions, like 4 cylinder versions for 1/2 ton trucks, 3 cylinder versions for cars, 1 or 2 cylinder hybrid versions for cars and small trucks, etc. I like new technology, not sticking with the same old same old. The Duramax and Cat engines are good engines, but they are dated. It will take new ideas to get us to the point of diesel engines in every vehicle, which is the only logical near term answer to reducing petroleum usage until the next big energy source arrives...

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09-02-2009 01:51 AM  8 years agoPost 7
SteveH

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Texas

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It will take new ideas to get us to the point of diesel engines in every vehicle, which is the only logical near term answer to reducing petroleum usage until the next big energy source arrives...
I don't know how you figure Diesel will reduce petroleum usage...the new ones with all the govenment mandated smog control equipment get no better fuel mileage that gasoline trucks.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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09-02-2009 10:04 AM  8 years agoPost 8
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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JasonJ,

You like the looks of this engine?

You have got to be kidding. It's the third clusterfck Ford has come up with in 7 years for the Superduty. Two water pumps? Two entirely descrete cooling systems? Still using glow plugs? The cooled EGR system looks like something that belongs on the space shuttle. To me it looks like another investors nightmare. BTW: Ford did take bailout money.

You're saying the Duramax is dated? It's a clean sheet design from 2001. That is not a dated design.Yea I guess if you look at Ford's last seven years you're right! GM has a good motor with the Dmax. They didn't design it, Isuzu did. It had some issues over the years but overall it's a great engine with a well designed Allison auto behind it. I used to have one. It was bad enough under the hood but the Ford stuff is ridiculous. Did you know to that to do any major work on the Ford they have to take the cab off? I am not sh!ttin you. Ford even went so far as to redesign the wire harnesses... adding disconnects at all of the right places.

What's left? Dodge Cummins. Talk about dated. This motor has been around since 1964. It has been redesigned a few times. The 5.9 was pretty much the same until the 6.7 came out in 2007. Still an inline six cylinder "true" high mileage rated pulling diesel. I sold my Dmax in 2004 and bought a 2004 Dodge with the diesel. I have watched Ford go through this whole nightmare of diesel follies over the last seven years and just have been shaking my head. There is almost no one out there that has any respect for what Ford has done to it's reputation with respect to the garbage they have been putting in thier trucks.

I was looking for simplicity. Dodge has the only diesel that's simple, easy to work on (if needed) and reliable, all in one package. That's what we all expect in a diesel. My truck gets 15-16 around town and 20mpg on the highway with a dyno sheet in the 550hp/1050tq range. I can look down both sides of my engine and see the ground. I can change the turbo with ease and work on the top end without having to remove a boatload of garbage bolted all over the thing. My engine in 2004 came stock with no Cat, no EGR and no glow plugs. The new V8 diesels are just a bear to work on if you have to go any deeper than the air filter. Another thing to look at is what they call B10 rating. It's a specification that tries to esimate engine life. The Cummins rating is 350,000 miles. It means 10% failures in 350,000 miles. Ford and GM are typically rated at 100,000 miles less.

I do agree... emissions regs keep pushing them over the edge. This government is not happy with diesels and it's getting worse. If I was in the market today for a diesel pickup I would have a hard time. I may have my Dodge for a long time. It's already the longest time I've owned a vehicle I bought brand new.

This is what the inside of a real diesel looks like LOL. This is a cutaway of the Cummins 5.9.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-02-2009 12:59 PM  8 years agoPost 9
rogers259

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Canal Winchester, OH

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^^^ x2!!!

Can't beat the simplicity of the Cummins 5.9. Even for a weekend "shadetree" mechanic its very easy to work on.

I have a 2004.5 dodge ram 3500 and i'm extremely pleased with it!

Forgot to add: NO car/truck/whatever should ever have to have the cab/body removed to change a turbo, work on the electronics, whatever. My friends 08 ford F450 spent 5 months at a dodge dealership in KY with its cab off and Ford replacing a bunch of crap. The truck had 13k miles on it and had a 2 wireing harness, computer, turbos replaced 3 times, injectors, transmission all replaced. Heck knows what else was replaced and Ford refused to Lemon Law it because its considered a commercial vehicle. The most they would do is offer to extend his bumper to bumper warranty by 1 year. This was after the truck left him and his three kids and pregnant wife stranded in southern KY with his 6 horses and trailer. Ford also refused to provide a loaner vehicle to get them and the trailer home. I got the call to come get him and the family home as I had the only truck strong enough to handle the load. His comment to me on the way home was the fact That it handled the merges, hills, with power to spare and never once hit 1200 degrees on the EGT. We kept the cruise at 68-70 most of the way and averaged 22.1mpg on the way down to pick him up and 16.4mpg on the way back pullin the load all hand calced. His 450 not pulling anything gets 9-10mpg. Wasnt going to rub it in but thats what a proper built diesel lives to do.

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09-02-2009 01:40 PM  8 years agoPost 10
Mutt

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M ca usa

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Only one truck better then the dodge with the cummins and that is my peterbilt with its cat 425. Ford and chevy are wannabes

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09-02-2009 01:49 PM  8 years agoPost 11
rogers259

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Canal Winchester, OH

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Mutt,

Ya got that right! Now if Cat would cut a deal with someone to make a 3/4 or 1 ton with a cat in her....Ohhhh would that be a tough decision to make!

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09-02-2009 02:26 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Mutt

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rogers259 if that ever happened I would dump my dodge in a heart beat and buy it.

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09-02-2009 03:05 PM  8 years agoPost 13
BeltFedBrowning

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Kansas City

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The new V8 diesels are just a bear to work on if you have to go any deeper than the air filter.
Hootowl, your post is wrong! The air cleaner on a Ford 6 liter diesel is also a pain in the ass to replace!

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09-02-2009 06:24 PM  8 years agoPost 14
Professor Fate

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Goose Creek S.C.

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Best thing to do with a Ford 6ltr. keep the airfilter and throw away the engine!

Welcome my son, Welcome to the machine

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09-02-2009 06:27 PM  8 years agoPost 15
loewermx

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Alexandria, La

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I have had great luck out of the Ford 6.0. We have four of them and all have been very reliable

Cajun Aircraft

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09-02-2009 06:41 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Professor Fate

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Goose Creek S.C.

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We had several fleet trucks go t*ts up right at 100000 miles. One that is still running past 100000 miles. Even after $8000 bill from local Ford dealer. When at first start up loves starting fluid and runs smooth as a baby's butt. Go figure....Better idea...Ya right.

Welcome my son, Welcome to the machine

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09-02-2009 07:55 PM  8 years agoPost 17
loewermx

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Alexandria, La

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I guess everyone has different luck, one of our trucks has 118,000, another with 127,000, another with 157,000 and the last with 37,000.

Knock on wood, they keep running that way.

Cajun Aircraft

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09-03-2009 04:32 AM  8 years agoPost 18
JasonJ

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North Idaho

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I don't know how you figure Diesel will reduce petroleum usage...the new ones with all the govenment mandated smog control equipment get no better fuel mileage that gasoline trucks.
Yeah, that's true. Like those darn Volkswagen turbo diesels that get 50 mpg. Yep, that's terrible. No batteries, no hybrid this and that. Imagine what could be done with a small diesel/eletric hybrid in a car. Works pretty darn good in trains, no reason it can't work in a car. My point is, it isn't just the trucks we are talking about. It is everything we drive. BMW has a new diesel that gets awesome economy and still gives you that BMW kick in the arse. We get happy that Ford makes the new Taurus that averages 27 mpg. Please....My 99 Dodge Intrepid does better than that. Maybe not as quickly, but still...

Also, please show me one gasoline pickup truck with the same tow ratings and ability as a diesel that gets as good or better fuel economy, because I am pretty sure it doesn't exist.

And yes, the Duramax is dated. The sheet might have been clean in 01, but they still just did the same old thing. Hey, I think Isuzu makes some of the best diesel engines out there, they are in more equipment than people realize, but it is still dated technology. Cling to the old ways if you want, but the new stuff is coming whether you like it or not. Me, I would rather give it a chance and see if it will fail than just blindly assume it will fail.

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09-03-2009 10:05 AM  8 years agoPost 19
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Jason,

My thoughts exactly... I can't believe they are still producing so many passenger cars that can't do better than 30mpg highway. I agree with you on the diesel/electric. It's this effed up country we live in where the gov and the environmentalists along with the cry babies that get legislation through to stop the progress because somebody thinks it's going to hurt something. Not doing anything is what is hurting us. I just read a story where the gov (FAA) does not allow electric powered airplanes. There are now light aircraft that are proven but cannot be produced due to this rule.

About the Duramax... no I don't agree with you at all about it being dated. There are many things about it that not only modern but were done at high risk. The aluminum heads ended up being a big plus. Now everyone else seems to be following. They dissipate heat much faster than iron and have shown to allow higher short term EGT's with no issues. They were first with the very high pressure common rail in this class. Later in 2003 Cummins incorporated the same system. The engine is built for long term durability and I do believe Ford has failed that part miserably mostly because they jumped too far ahead too soon.

I hope Ford gets the details right and has good luck with all of the sensors and crap on this new boat anchor they call a motor. It looks like a real bear to work on with a lot of potential leak points and component issues. They can keep it. I like simple.

It doesn't get much simpler than this, my 04 Cummins... notice you can see the asphalt down there? Try that with a Ford or GM diesel LOL.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-03-2009 10:33 AM  8 years agoPost 20
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Doesen't Toyota have a diesel truck coming out? That should put a spin on the market to I would suspect...

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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HelicopterOff Topics › Ford's new diesel.... not sure what to say
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