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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Head Speeds
09-01-2009 12:23 AM  8 years agoPost 1
Helizrule

rrVeteran

Lake Ariel, PA

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I just finished my first gallon fuel on my predator with the 231 engine. I have been running 1600-1650 RPM. When can I crank it up higher and what are acceptable speeds for idle 1 and 2? Running Radix FAI mains.

One mile of road will take you one mile. One mile of runway will take you anywhere in the world.

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09-01-2009 01:11 AM  8 years agoPost 2
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Stock?

If its the stock GR of 6.28 you can go to 1900 rpms.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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09-01-2009 01:22 AM  8 years agoPost 3
Helizrule

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Lake Ariel, PA

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Yes, it is stock for now. Runs like a sewing machine. I changed the gov menus and it seems not to overspeed as much.

One mile of road will take you one mile. One mile of runway will take you anywhere in the world.

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09-01-2009 01:28 AM  8 years agoPost 4
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Engine speeds

If you're trying to run the same engine speeds that I run with the 1005 with 6.92gr, then my head speeds of 1560, 1680, 1800 would translate to 1700, 1850 and 1980 on yours.

I think 1980 is probably pushing the limit and you may overstress the head, if it was me I'd be more comfortable with no more than 1900 but I read people here running it as much as 1950.

My advice is get the rpm that you find you can do all your maneuvers with comfortably and shoot for the slowest speed to do that. There is no reason for the heli to be screaming like a mad bee for you to cruise around. Set 3 speeds use the low speed for hover and low slow flight or whatnot, use the medium speed for everything picking that speed as the slowest possible to do what you need comfortably, and then choose a higher speed for the times when you're trying to push the pedal to the metal and go as fast as you can.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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09-01-2009 01:36 AM  8 years agoPost 5
Helizrule

rrVeteran

Lake Ariel, PA

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Ok, very interesting. I really don't want a screaming machine. I'll probably won't run over 1850. I still want to be careful since it is still new. I didn't realize you had such a different gear ratio.

One mile of road will take you one mile. One mile of runway will take you anywhere in the world.

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09-01-2009 04:51 AM  8 years agoPost 6
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Ok, very interesting. I really don't want a screaming machine. I'll probably won't run over 1850.
Do you know for sure what your main gear ratio is???
That would be most important to know first.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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09-01-2009 08:48 PM  8 years agoPost 7
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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If its the stock GR of 6.28 you can go to 1900 rpms.
Is the stock Predator gear ratio really 6.28:1?

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09-01-2009 08:59 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Doug Darby

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Dallas, Texas

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My stock Predator "Condor" ratio was 8.00:1. When I shrunk it to the normal predator with 710 blades I set mine to 6.769:1..

I have it governed at 1850 or 12,523 RPM on my Hanson Mod G26.

doug

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09-01-2009 09:24 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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My stock Predator "Condor" ratio was 8.00:1. When I shrunk it to the normal predator with 710 blades I set mine to 6.769:1..
That seems more realistic.

Raja, where did you get your numbers?

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09-01-2009 11:02 PM  8 years agoPost 10
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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Somewhere DARK....

Chris D. Bergen

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09-02-2009 01:42 AM  8 years agoPost 11
Helizrule

rrVeteran

Lake Ariel, PA

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I am running a gear ratio of 6.28 with the stock G231 engine. I have 1650 in idle 1 and 1750 in idle 2 for now until I get a bit more time on the engine. Today alone I put one hour and 25 mins on the Predator. It just runs so good and smooth I can't stop flying this thing.

One mile of road will take you one mile. One mile of runway will take you anywhere in the world.

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09-02-2009 02:02 AM  8 years agoPost 12
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Sounds like your having a lot of fun with your gasser.

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09-02-2009 02:05 AM  8 years agoPost 13
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Numbers

6.28GR was the stock gear ration for the Predator not the Condor. Maybe something changed now, but in the past that is what it is. Doug had a condor that he changed over, and most people who do change the Predator GR go for something higher than 6.28 for better performance.

The fact that helizrule gr is 6.28 reinforces this as still being the standard at least with the kit that he got.

Gassers are king. I spend a good hour and a half myself today shooting autos. I did 3 tanks of gas, but when you're constantly shooting autos the fuel runtime is just about doubled. I'm getting more and more comfortable with getting lower backwards inverted before I either pull it up or roll it to upright. Way too cool and you can have a ball of an afternoon for a dollar! I'm 1 flight short of 2900 flights total now between the two birds

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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09-02-2009 02:13 AM  8 years agoPost 14
Helizrule

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Lake Ariel, PA

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Oh man, I had a ball. The weather was perfect, winds perfect for autos (my fav thing) I shot tons of autos today getting a good feel for the weight of the machine. Oh and I got home and didn't have to clean the machine. Tomorrows weather is going to be just as good so I plan on another log day in the air burning GAS.
Raja, I have a running logbook with each flight time for this machine. I have a long long way to catch up to you.

One mile of road will take you one mile. One mile of runway will take you anywhere in the world.

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09-02-2009 02:31 AM  8 years agoPost 15
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Keep it coming!

You'll get there in time! Yes today was picture perfect, almost zero wind crip blue skies cool and dry. More power than I had at IRCHA with their hot weather, I think I was climbing easy 40ft/sec today.

I did spend some time at the end of the day to coach another pilot how to do autos -- The do's and don'ts of them, for fun, here is a quick list of what comes to mind:

Do's:

Climb high, turn back into the wind, hit hold THEN reduce collective to anything 0 pitch or negative.
Keep moving forward
Always touch down at full collective no matter what
Flare to bleed forward speed into lift, then add collective.
Drop collective to about 1/4 stick to regain headspeed.
If you're gonna land short, push forward stick and increase collective slightly to extend the flight distance gained before landing.
If you're headspeed is low just before landing, go for a running landing by touching down and increasing collective as you slide to keep it light as long as possible.
Level off before touchdown to keep the tail from digging in.

Don'ts:

Come straight down (hover down) especially in dead calm conditions. The exception is when its windy.
Lower collective after you start to raise it for landing. Only raise it or pause to make the landing.
Touchdown at anything less than full collective.
Drop the stick to the floor to gain headspeed that you blew.
Add collective at the same time you flare from fast forward speed. Instead flare first, then add collective to carry the model once the speed bleeds off.
Hang too long and lose head speed. If you see the blade disk starting to scatter, reduce collective slightly to regain headspeed.
Do blade stop autos - you're playing with fire!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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09-02-2009 02:39 AM  8 years agoPost 16
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Good lesson Raja.

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09-02-2009 03:57 AM  8 years agoPost 17
xcellgasman101

rrElite Veteran

WOODWARD, OKLA....

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Climb high, turn back into the wind, hit hold THEN reduce collective to anything 0 pitch or negative.
Sorry Raja,, I would have to disagree with this statement for a beginner,, I always have them let the heli start to fall before hitting the hold switch, this way the HS stays up there,, I have seen a new guy do it your way and still be trying to hold the heli in a hover after hitting the hold switch, If you have them start the decent before they hit hold,, this can't happen,, Just my two cents worth,, Class dismissed XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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09-02-2009 04:04 AM  8 years agoPost 18
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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reduce collective to anything 0 pitch or negative.
Do you really think that 0 pitch is sufficient for an auto? Isn't -4 degrees a much better value?

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09-02-2009 04:06 AM  8 years agoPost 19
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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I totally understand

I told this to the guy today at the field because he was diving down pretty steep dropping collective first then hitting hold.

In reality it doesn't really matter much. Sure it does if you stay up there and wait several seconds, but if you hit hold and then drop collective within 1 second even 2 its absolutely fine. I was showing him how to recover head speed when you blow it, and I had to wait at least 5 seconds with hover collective before my 1005 showed scattered blades which I recovered rather nicely in about 3 seconds with -5 degrees pitch.

Anyway, on an interesting note, I was watching the FAI World's at IRCHA earlier this month and every single pilot actually slowed the head speed down to normal mode (1500 rpms) from 2000 rpms before they initiated their S turn auto. I asked the same question that you ask here or point out, why start with a slower head speed maybe they need more to allow for a better auto. The answer was they got enough and the headspeed is going to decay from 2000 anyways in the auto when they are coming down. Basically what the guy was saying is that they way they auto and descend, the headspeed is sort of maintained at the lower speed (closer to 1500) than to 2000 anyways - where it balances out in other words.

But I have no problem with your suggestion, newbies can do it that way too though when I teach it I preach the way I wrote above.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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09-02-2009 04:10 AM  8 years agoPost 20
xcellgasman101

rrElite Veteran

WOODWARD, OKLA....

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If you are allready comming down, 0 pitch is ok, but if you go up turn into the wind, (while hovering) then hit hold, then go to 0 pitch, your going to loose HS, Every landing I do is a auto, and everyone of them I drop the heli before I hit hold,, I never loose HS from the beginning,, and I never land at full collective, after I'm on the ground I can still lift the heli off the ground,, But we all do things differant.. XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

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