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HelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › Need some honest answers from Pantera owners
09-02-2009 06:55 PM  8 years agoPost 21
Kjarman

rrApprentice

noblesville, IN

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No worries....

As far as the wife thing.... Honesty is the best policy for me. If I'm going to spend money. I tell her first. If this is a new hobby for you, I would also have the discussion with her about initial cost. It's not the maintenance that kills you with the wife, It's usually the initial cost of getting started. I don't know your situation, but for me, I had to buy things one at a time... and the wife surprised me one Christmas with a new kit, gyro and engine!!! Of course we had talked about it for maybe 2 months before that happened.

No worries with the Pantera.... you'll love it.

I sold another one to Terrafirma...... wife wants to know where the money's at!!!!

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09-02-2009 08:58 PM  8 years agoPost 22
DesertClimber

rrNovice

ABQ

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Easy for me- I just let her fly the helis! I have a 250 set really mellow so she can hover it around at the indoor meets, and now she's buddy boxing on a .50 size... She was bored with the Coax after only a few indoor meets, doing backwards figure 8's and everything. So in reality one of these Panteras is for her. I even ordered pink tail blades for it, but John was out. So sad.
howlingriffon wrote:
...how do you guys get the wives talked into it or just ask for forgiveness later? I'm thinking of getting the kids hooked w/ a co-ax & taking it from there. Any suggestions?

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09-02-2009 09:11 PM  8 years agoPost 23
ProModeler

rrElite Veteran

Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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I can vouch for Kyle having a sweetheart of a wife, she did indeed surprise him with a nice Christmas present.


John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745

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09-03-2009 03:23 AM  8 years agoPost 24
gondwnhard

rrApprentice

redwood city ca.

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I would like everybodys opinion about the heli. You can be positive, you can be negative, but you CANNOT argue with each other. You are all entitled to YOUR opinion.

Gondwnhard- You know when you don't like something, or had a bad experience, you could just 'move on'... Interesting concept, eh?

Did it hit you in the groin?

WTF is this

howlingriffon hope that helped a little. What ever you get as your first nitro you should try and get some local help, to look it over and help with tuning.
good luck

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09-03-2009 05:20 AM  8 years agoPost 25
The Dude II

rrVeteran

IN - USA

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Tell ya bout my latest Pantera build and why I like it.

vBar 4.0 is the gist of it.

Why the Pantera for such a piece of electronics...simple.

Yes...simple.

Single linkages to the swash and servo output stabilizers...doesn't get any simpler than that...unless a Mikado or Vision 50 servo setup (they use 3 direct-drive links where the Pantera uses a bell-crank for the elevator input and a more traditional frame layout). The more linkages you introduce into a control system (Trex, Raptor, Frenzy..etc) the more you have to account for as slop wears into the system...or worse, a bad crash.

Plastic...love it! Helped with a few CF framed birds lately...wouldn't you know it...RF travels along CF frames and can cause problems...literally didn't see the gyro issues...until some creative placement was done with the electronics and a kind pointer from KBDD. Plastic is not only benign to RF traveling along it but self aligns. I'll take a good plastic framed heli most days of the week for the sheer ease of working with it.

Inexpensive...how many kits do I have??? Well, enough! Parts are always a box away...and if I'm low...I beat John at his own game...I order kits...not 1 or 2 parts. I know this bucks the "business model"...but playing any "game" in life "smart" is the way to create the most value for yourself.

Stability...Pantera has it!
If you are "new" to the 50-size arena...one thing you need to get a lot of is CONFIDENCE! Not simulator "I can doing any move" -constantly hitting the reset button...more like you're at the field putting tank-after-tank through your heli. Getting comfortable with the heli itself, your radio, your field, your flying buddies or others in attendance (you're flying a helicopter...people will be watching you). The Pantera out of the box is an absolute beautiful, easy to handle machine for hovering and learning forward flight. And then...

Upgrades to performance in stock form:
2 Bell-Hiller ratios....1:1 for training and basic areobatics; 0.7:1 for mild to wild 3d (Not nut-busting 3D...but wild if you've learned how to fly). This adjustment is on the seesaw carrier.
2 seesaw adjustments...outer most for lower cyclic/collective response (trainer); Middle hole...3D/aggressive aerobatic flight.
Hiller Cage...stock for training; add the supplied 2.2mm spacers for more aggressive handling.
Swash Plate...keep the spacers (stock config) for 3D/aggressive performance; remove the spacers for an even more docile trainer.
Paddles...Front hole for Training, aft hole for 3D/Agressive aerobatics.

That's 5 adjustment points "built-in" to the head design to help you get that "confidence" and then help you progress as you learn to handle more.

Stock fuel system is rock solid. OS-50 Hyper and 1850 HS...8-9 minutes easily followed by 2-3 more minutes at 1700 HS. Run the entire time at 1700 (for training) you can easily get 12-minute+ run times on a tank.

Frames, Landing gear, tail system...non issue...SOLID.

Canopy...it's white & plastic with stickers. I've always used rattle-can or an airbrush. If you "know how" to treat plastic...it paints almost as well as fiberglass.

So, back to the vBar...and keep this in mind...I'm Nitro...no batteries unless they're powering electronics....not motors! (I know...I limit myself...but so many earthly desires...I have to draw a line somewhere).
IRCHA-08 I looked over just about every vendor looking for the Pantera replacement. I was (and still am) getting good at flying and setup...but feel that a "machine with more to offer" would suit me. Knew it wasn't a Trex 600N...but the Vibe 50 looked nice...so did a few others that didn't make it to market. But I held back...costs, complexity (all those linkages) and knowing that flybarless is right around the corner.

So, January-09 I play with a Heli-Command RIGID...what a treat...for scale apps and smooth flying...3D was not for it. But...on a Pantera! Time goes forth, funds are available & timing seemed right to try vBar4.0. In a Pantera with an OS-70 nested between the frames. As I write this, I'm just over 24-hours past the maiden with the vBar in the Pantera...but I can tell you this...I'm glad I didn't layout the cash for the 90-sized birds just yet...a $200 heli with a handful of upgrades may just be what keeps me "creating great value" in my hobby.

Another side note of recent happenings with a Pantera...it did place 5th in the AMA FAI Class 1 event that was held at IRCHA this year.
Funny thing was, prior to Monday August 10th, 2009 I had never paid much attention to FAI/F3C...other than I like to build my birds to their standards...precission...and I like IMAC type aerobatic flight...don't get me wrong...love me some "stick-bang'n"... in the parlance of our times. Joe( from ESpirit) grabbed me Thursday and got my attention. Little did I know I'd find my next modeling interest hanging with Scott Gray & Bill Tinsley...and now hangs an FAI fuse in the garage for a flybarred Pantera... soon to get the new OS-.55.

Good little bird...not perfect...but no "1" helicopter will give you all you desire.

In closing, if you desire to stick-bang your way into the finals at IRCHA next year...you could buy a Pantera and it will teach you some new things...but a week later you'll be onto your next heli (trex or whatever).
If your goal is a bit more modest and "learning" is what you're after...I say give the Pantera a try. My experience tells me the Pantera & Raptor 50 with Kasama Head are true delites to learn with. This new SDX 50 is bad-A$$ too...but what price point again???

Good Luck.

P.S. I run an Audacity ProMuffler, Audacity Metal Swash Plate, Audacity Metal Yoke with Audacity 88-durometer dampers...then I go nuck'n-futz...CF Boom (RJX), CF Boom Supports (Century), CF Skids (QuickHeli) and CF Tail Push Rod. Then I move the tail servo up front using nothing but Audacity available parts (helps CG)...that's the flybarred Pantera...the FlyBarless also uses an Audacity BBC for the OS-70. Both birds use metal GohBee grips & Century Blades.

P.S.S. Am I a "fan boy"...nope...just works for me.

lotta ins, lotta outs

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09-03-2009 08:32 PM  8 years agoPost 26
TankDirt

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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Thanks for the write up, Im deffinitly a stick banger,And beyond the learning "stage" (although learning something new everyday!).

Right now I have a raptor50 Titan with the SE head and I have to say in terms of flight performance Its deffinitly not a learning bird.

Im prabably going flybarless next year, with the total G being a reciever, govenor, and 3 axis gyro all in one for less than the price of the V-bar it might acctually be less than buying a gyro,gov, and reciever!

What worries me is 5 people say its not good for 3D, and the other 5 say its great for it.

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09-03-2009 10:59 PM  8 years agoPost 27
Kjarman

rrApprentice

noblesville, IN

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Like several have said... it will do all the maneuvers. It's just not going to do them fast or with a lot of authority. If you are a full deflection all the time kinda guy, it will break you of that habit real darn quick. Smooth and light on the collective at all times with the Pantera. Think of it this way, if the T-Rex grooves to "Nine inch Nails"... the Pantera grooves to "The Eagles."

I sold another one to Terrafirma...... wife wants to know where the money's at!!!!

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09-04-2009 02:53 AM  8 years agoPost 28
billm

rrElite Veteran

Liberty Lake, WA

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Well said Dude.
Congrats on your victory.
I am also getting into your type of flying.
I practice with my Panteras. It's a great ship that if I crash. The replacement parts are in my box and does not break the bank.
When It's time to go up to the line. My EVO 90 is spooling up.
Thank god the pantera is a great weekend flyer and gets my brain wired without the worries of a crash. When the EVO flys. My VISA screams "dont do that move"!

My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic

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09-05-2009 06:04 AM  8 years agoPost 29
TankDirt

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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Ive gotten quite a few PM's about why I dont want to build the frenzy and why Ive limited my choices to the 600N or Pantera So im just going to post it all here. Ill just post my personal experience with a few helis.

600N- Ive had the sport and the pro versions. Loved the bling, Loved how they flew. Was very poppy and light on the sticks. Parts were cheap as well....all of this doesnt come without a price, though.

Quality was lacking, I have a theory that they put 2 parts in each bag because only one will fit or work. It required constant work for the links and balls wearing out, Bearring quality was also bad, Had to change them very often. In addition to that alot of the metal parts themselves developed slop. Maintenace was also horrible, haveing CF side frames there was 10 times more screws and 10 times more frustration trying to rapair anything.

Although I loved the heli a 90 was calling so I got rid of it to pick up a Raptor 90 se, But thats a whole nother story.

Raptor 50 Titan SE- Feels pretty heavy in the air, MUCH more capable than the last raptors thanks to the new mixing arms and flybar ratio change. bogs easier, Because its heavier, but a quick change in collective management fixed that. maintenace is just awsome, all the servos mount to the frame with 4 screws total, so if you break a frame all you have to do is take the radio tray off. theres no fan shrouds or anything like that to deal with..

The only downsides are that is not the cheapest heli to crash, and the radio mounting for the reciever is horrible.

Upsides are Ive been flying raptors for years and the new SE ive been flying it for well over 2 months and theres NO slop, Thunder Tigers wear very well.

Frenzy 50- Dont ask how, But ive had over 3 of these helis and have yet to fly one. And I never will. If you think align quality is bad then dont even think about touching the frenzy.

This might seem like I have something against this heli, I really dont. fly what you want, do what you want. Thats something I love about the hobby. This is simply my first hand experience talking.

The bearrings are absolutly horrible, Slop comes standard out of the box. The plastic links are harder than the pliars used to pop them on, they are held onto the linkage rod VERY hard, All my strength couldnt get these links off. All the plastic pieces are very hard, In a bad way. The tail pully was out of round on all 3 of mine, the balls were not perfectly round, they would be solid when their on strait but then when you give it a slight angle they become sloppy.

Bearrings are poorly set up, plastic spacers are used everywhere creating more slop.
Heck, even alot of the paint on my frenzy was poorly sprayed, like the painted grips had alot of overspray etc etc.

I bought a spare spindle and it looked like they threw it in a tub grinder. It went in the trash when it was still in the bag. frankly, I wouldnt trust this heli to stay in one piece.

That said, it seems to get good flight reports. I cant comment on that but im sure it flys OK.

I know the frenzy vs Pantera is big on here, But I can assure you this is not for that intention so I dont want any argueing.

The reason why ive limited my choices to the 600N and Pantera is:

I still love the 600, its a good bird. But after going back to the rapotr for awhile I question myself whether or not I want to deal with all the hassles of owning it. The Pantera seems to wear like a raptor, Has CCPM, and is about the same weight. Seems durable enough, and a great price to boot. I really wish that I could try one, I had the chance at IRCHA but it was solely set up for FAI so I passed, If I buy one and dont like it I would likely have to take a pretty big hit on the price.

does anybody know of any Metal grips that would fit the Pantera? And can anybody compare the Pantera to a Titan SE?

All of this help is greatly appreciated, Keep the info comeing guys.

Thanks,cody

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09-05-2009 01:19 PM  8 years agoPost 30
Life_Nerd

rrVeteran

USA

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Hi Tank,

These are a direct replacement with no modifications:

Gohbee aluminum grips

I like them.

Scott

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09-06-2009 11:14 AM  8 years agoPost 31
TankDirt

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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Thanks! Will raptor grips fit? That would open alot of doors

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09-06-2009 03:17 PM  8 years agoPost 32
MaxAdventure

rrVeteran

Northern CO

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Tankdirt, are you sure you're 17? Your posts are more mature and more eloquently written than the vast majority on here.

I think I'd agree with the positives listed so far, the same things I read when I chose to buy in the first place.

I've been flying three Pantera:
OS 50, OS 70BBC, and an e Conversion.

The 70 sucks fuel, I'm doing the gear change to help that. I fly the e conversion the most.
I don't really have any cons.

As for the 3D, with the head adjustments it can run all the same moves, but it isn't running on the edge of control all the time that seems to give popular 3D ready-to-crash flying so many are thrilled with.

However, the Pantera loves speed, so huge fast flying is sweet. I'm finally getting to where I'd like to add something new to my three Pantera. Maybe this time next year I can compare the Pantera to a 700/800mm - for now it's everything I want.

(if more threads are this good, I might come back to RR)

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09-07-2009 01:57 AM  8 years agoPost 33
TankDirt

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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Yes sir, 17

Im liking the Pantera over the others as of now. Its getting expensive really fast though.

Is the BBC a drop in upgrade?

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09-07-2009 02:24 AM  8 years agoPost 34
rsalazar

rrElite Veteran

Florida, USA

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Is the BBC a drop in upgrade?
No, It needs some work

Talk to John

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09-07-2009 02:51 AM  8 years agoPost 35
Mr.HillBilly

rrVeteran

Salesville, OH - USA

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The BBC is not a big deal, but you will need to tinker with a few things to get it in there. If you try it just be ready to spend some extra time on it, it is worth the minor head aches that it is going to give you.

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09-07-2009 03:30 AM  8 years agoPost 36
TankDirt

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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Thanks, What can be said about head loading on the Pantera? I watch the videos and it seems like the head gets loaded up very easily. Even in the video with Jasan Krause flying

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09-07-2009 04:48 AM  8 years agoPost 37
The Dude II

rrVeteran

IN - USA

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The head needs all 10 degrees of cyclic to really get the rates up...at that point...if you have not yet learned collective skills and how to setup the heli for the move...it's less forgiving to "bog" than a few other popular birds.
Now that said...I fly a Hyper 50. The newer 50-size engines all boast 2.1BHP vs the Hyper's 1.9BHP...few extra % of power in reserve.

I fly 1850 and you "listen" to the heli and adjust the left hand accordingly.

As mentioned...the Pantera likes to fly fast...so big flowing moves work best.

The 70 FBL Pantera I'm now flying will spoil me real fast...I can be as lazy on the sticks as I want...then just stick'em in the corners and flip/roll away and the Head Speed just purrs along and the heli SCOOOOOTS across the sky.

lotta ins, lotta outs

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09-07-2009 05:08 AM  8 years agoPost 38
TankDirt

rrKey Veteran

Illinois

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10 Degrees cyclic? I only run 8 in the raptor, And collective is +/-13...Big and fast is fun but I also want alittle smack down. Im an experianced pilot and usually run 2150HS.

Im running a YS50/RJX and it has tons of power

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