RunRyder RC
 7  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 1913 views TOPIC CLOSED
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › rjx fbl grip alternatives
09-02-2009 06:54 PM  8 years agoPost 21
Quicktoy

rrApprentice

Sarasota, FL USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Not A problem Git. Glad I could help. Both my spindles were out of bags and so I just made a trip to my local heli shop to confirm and the guy there was nice enough to pull a trex 600 spindle out and an outrage spindle out of the bags and mic them and they are definately identical. Here's the problem.... You still can't use them with the rjx head. They are interchangeable with one another but not compatable with the rjx head. Now the mikados may work. I'm at flight field right now bit can swing by my heli shop on way home and see if mikado stuff is compatable with rjx head block. If worst comes to worst. I have a really nice compass fbl head I paid 225 for I'd let you have for 100 shipped

Scott

Srimok X2, Avant Aurora, Trex 700 Suzi Hans, 700 LE, 700 FBL, Trex 450 Pro X2, HC500, $50 Gaui 425

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-02-2009 07:08 PM  8 years agoPost 22
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Back to the original question..

this is not a spindle thread...you asked what grips could be used with that head hub...

now that we know the outrage spindle is the same as the trex 600 spindles does that REALLY mean the trex 600 grips will work?

I guess if you measure the width of the headblock for the RJX and a stock trex 600 then you will get your answer...Unfortunately I do not have a stock trex 600 headblock to measure and compare to the RJX for you....

you need to take into account the length of the grips and also...where would you end up for alignment/delta on the main grips

I do however have a few Outrage flybarless heads to measure...and if the headblock of the Outrage is the same width as the RJX then it would stand to reason that the Outrage grips might work also...

I can tell you that I did use a set of plastic logo 10 grips on an RJX head hub before though...I used the logo 10 spindle and grips...which means you could get a set of logo 10 metal grips if you really wanted to...but I don't think that's a very good option ..

BTW...you guys really do need to lighten up...this is just a hobby...you guys are VERY quick to criticize at the most minor of slip ups...lol...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-02-2009 07:09 PM  8 years agoPost 23
Git

rrVeteran

Brunei

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

quicktoy,

yes, i have the rjx fbl spindle. they dont have the shoulder like the aligns and rjx's are about 2mm longer. but ive also noticed that the shoulder are used for mounting the thrust bearings.

so was thinking of using align thrust bearings on the outrage spindle + grips and fit them onto the rjx hub. about the shorter length, i think removing some of the shims or use thinner bearings.

mikado is the next option. they sell those grip extensions. but that means i have to use my align centre hub and cut off those pins. its just that the price of those extensions are almost the same as a pair of outrage grips. if it's no trouble, then i would appreciate what ur findings on using the mikados.

worst come to worst, i will just spend the xtra $ and get a cyberhead. thanks for the offer though.

Alees Rush 750

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-02-2009 07:31 PM  8 years agoPost 24
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

yes, i have the rjx fbl spindle. they dont have the shoulder like the aligns and rjx's are about 2mm longer. but ive also noticed that the shoulder are used for mounting the thrust bearings.
So Anthony was right after all

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-02-2009 07:34 PM  8 years agoPost 25
Git

rrVeteran

Brunei

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

its a fbl 50

jag,

i did ask..
btw, does any1 know if the outrage 50 flybarless (R50N575-8) spindle shaft is the same with trex600's?
becoz my next course of action would be to use my align hub and cut off the pins should they not fit into the rjx hub.
now that we know the outrage spindle is the same as the trex 600 spindles does that REALLY mean the trex 600 grips will work?
i was thinking of getting the outrage fbl grips. which already has elongated arms for zero delta. if i planned to use 600 grips then there's the mikado extensions for fbl. but i wouldn't need outrage's spindle. i would use my 600 spindle.

Alees Rush 750

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-03-2009 01:06 PM  8 years agoPost 26
Quicktoy

rrApprentice

Sarasota, FL USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Outrage Spindles

all the outrage flybarless heads use the same spindle...the Stock trex 600 spindle will not work..
I never actually compared the stock trex 600 spindle to the outrage one
So anthony was right after all
Huh? you said it wouldnt work, then you said you never compared them. I'm lost. Laughingstill I never said jag was wrong reguarding using an align/outrage spindle in a RJX head, he never compared those two. he compared and align spindle to an outrage and I simply said he was wrong and that those two are identical. Lol you guys are funny when you get totally defensive thinking I was calling anyone out, when in fact I was simply trying to help people in the thread who asked some questions and got wrong answers.

Srimok X2, Avant Aurora, Trex 700 Suzi Hans, 700 LE, 700 FBL, Trex 450 Pro X2, HC500, $50 Gaui 425

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-03-2009 02:08 PM  8 years agoPost 27
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

From Jag:
all the outrage flybarless heads use the same spindle...the Stock trex 600 spindle will not work..
Form Git:
yes, i have the rjx fbl spindle. they dont have the shoulder like the aligns and rjx's are about 2mm longer. but ive also noticed that the shoulder are used for mounting the thrust bearings.
What I got from this was that the Outrage nor the Trex spindle will work in the RJX head. Anthony was saying that since all the Qutrage heads use the same spindle, you can't use them on the RJX head and use the Trex grips. Ain't gonna work.
Lol you guys are funny when you get totally defensive thinking I was calling anyone out, when in fact I was simply trying to help people in the thread who asked some questions and got wrong answers.
Good luck dude........Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-03-2009 02:25 PM  8 years agoPost 28
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I don't know whay I bother to try helping people like this..

jag.. it's not funny actually. i was seriously looking for answers and you gave me BS thru mere assumptions.
I happen to have a pretty wide selection of helis and parts at my house...so I took a few minutes to measure the parts and compare...

Here's some info...do with it what you want..

Head Hubs: RJX 50 sized head is 44mm wide
Outrage Head is 42mm wide
Aurora hub is 40mm wide

Spindles: Trex 600 spindle 93mm long
Mikado logo 600 spindle is 109mm long(not reduced on ends)..they are a solid 8mm like the RJX spindles
Rjx 50 sized Spindle 94mm long
Rjx 90 sized spindle 100mm Long
Aurora Sindles are 104mm (non reduced ends as well)
My guess is that you could use a trex/outrage spindle and Outrage grips if you decided to use an extra 1mm shim on each side of the dampners/hub of the RJX head

I still don't understand why you wouldn't just use the RJX grips though? I have 3 or 4 machines with those heads and they work just fine for me...but to each their own...

Just an FYI...I have 11 different helis right now and they are ALL flybarless ...so I'm not the type to BS anyone when it comes to flybarless stuff...It's pretty safe to say that I know what I am talking about...at least I'd like to think so

Good luck
Anthony

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-03-2009 02:47 PM  8 years agoPost 29
Git

rrVeteran

Brunei

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

thank u very much for all info. facts are good. i dont mind adding extra shim here and there.

i want to try alternative grips to see which can handle crashes better. maybe its outrage, maybe its not. but i like trying.

Alees Rush 750

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-03-2009 06:54 PM  8 years agoPost 30
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

BobOD: Dude no insult intended, but I am in the aerospace fab business and I have zero idea how you are thread rolling the ID of a part. Thread rolling is a process in which the major/minor thread of a bolt/screw is formed. The internal thread on these blade grips are either tapped conventionally or machined on a mill, NOT THREAD ROLLED in any way, shape, or form. If the threads are stripped, it's not due to a bad thread roll. The part that is thread rolled is the OD of the screw. If anyone has an issue with getting small screws started in the hole, use the following trick to avoid cross threading the fastener: Slowly turn the screw counter clockwise until you feel it click, this is the leading edge of both male and female threads aligning with each other. Then slowly engage the threads. If you have a pulled thread in the blade grip, it is a simple fix to install a helicoil and it will be stronger than the original thread. Here's thread rolling info if anyone's interested.
___________________________________________________________________
Thread rolling
In this process the material is extruded into a male thread through mechanical pressure as the screw blank is rolled between a matched pair of dies, either flat or cylindrical. Thread rolling is better suited to high-volume production, and produces threads of diameters typically smaller than one inch. Also, materials with good deformation characteristics are necessary for rolling; these materials include softer (more ductile) metals and exclude brittle materials, such as cast iron. A rolled thread can often be easily recognized because the thread has a larger diameter than the blank rod from which it has been made. (However, necks and shoulders can be cut or rolled to different diameters, so this in itself is not a forensic give-away.) Also, the end of the screw usually looks a bit different from the end of a cut-thread screw. Rolled male threads tend to be slightly stronger than cut male threads, because of the effect of the cold forming action on the metal's grain structure.[7]

Process Characteristics

Produces external rolled threads
Material is plastically deformed and cold-worked
Produces rolled threads with excellent strength and surface finish
Forms major thread diameters greater than blank diameter
Is a high production process
It is usually three to five times faster than thread cutting.
The threads produced are very accurate and strong because they are cold worked

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-03-2009 10:24 PM  8 years agoPost 31
alfred

rrVeteran

Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

BobOD: Dude no insult intended, but I am in the aerospace fab business and I have zero idea how you are thread rolling the ID of a part. Thread rolling is a process in which the major/minor thread of a bolt/screw is formed. The internal thread on these blade grips are either tapped conventionally or machined on a mill, NOT THREAD ROLLED in any way
Yep
I was a bit confused about that part as well.
Never heard of a internal thread being rolled, but then I don't work in that Industry.

I am a bit of the same mind, why bother using different blade grips anyway. You might just want to experiment a bit which is fine, but it looks like it's turning into a major hassle.

The RJX grips are so cheap, that I am doubtful that replacing them will achieve your desired outcome.
In a crash or minor mishap, the kinetic energy has to go somewhere. If you replace the grips with tougher ones, then that energy just gets transferred to the next parts in line.
That might be better or could be far worse in damage and cost.
Most say that the actually arms are a bit too soft, but they can be replaced with the carbon version to counteract that issue.
Again, just be aware that it just moves the point of damage further down the line.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR
09-03-2009 11:22 PM  8 years agoPost 32
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

^^^^^ I agree 100%. I believe the RJX grips are 6061 T6 aluminum and should be the toughest material that you would want to use for a blade grip on your average heli. I have an RJX head on my rappy E550 and it's a nicely machined piece for the price. Fiber re-inforced plastics are all around good parts, but aluminum is tougher for 3D flight.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-04-2009 03:58 AM  8 years agoPost 33
Git

rrVeteran

Brunei

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

rjx screw threads are too soft for me. the main grip itself is very tough though.

also when tightening the main blade, i have to use a hex and pliers becoz the bolt will move if using hex alone. it was ok the first few times..i dont have this problem with align/kasama grips or all my other grips for that matter.

something got to give during crashes. and its those grip arms attachments.. again this involves unscrewing those hex screws and tightening them... i cant do this if the thread is loose. right now i have use metal set epoxy to hold a screw in place.

btw alfred, where can i get those carbon arms for the rjx?

Alees Rush 750

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-04-2009 04:37 PM  8 years agoPost 34
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

GIT: as I said before, install helicoils and be done with it. It's a simple installation and you can install/remove the arms as many times as you want. Install the helicoils with a SMALL amount of loctite only on the outside threads. The threads in my RJX blade grips are fine and the material isn't soft. I think that in general folks tend to over torque small screws and this weakens or pulls the thread. If folks use loctite and apply light torque (20-30 inch pounds) the threads should be fine. In your case, I would just install the helicoils. Hope this helps.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-04-2009 05:22 PM  8 years agoPost 35
Git

rrVeteran

Brunei

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

helicoil

ok.. i reread ur post again.. sorry i missed the helicoil bit. so googled it and found
Helical insert

Helical inserts, more commonly known by the tradename Heli-coil, are inserts made of coiled wire. The insert is inserted into a tapped hole that is larger than the desired hole. They are usually over-sized so that they anchor themselves. Some have tangs to install them while others don't. Special tools are required to install the inserts.
so i need a special tool.. how much is the tool usually? i probably gonna use it once or twice.. wouldnt it be more economical buying a new set of grips? hehe

i was really hoping someone already tried what im trying to do rather be the first one to try it.

im gonna buy the align grip extensions and try it on the rjx hub.. if dat doesnt work, cut of the pins and use my align centre hub from my beater heli. thanks anyway for all your inputs.

Alees Rush 750

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-04-2009 06:34 PM  8 years agoPost 36
Mojave

rrElite Veteran

Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

No biggie... I keep forgetting that I have easy access to the most awesome tool crib in the world. Not everyone is as spoiled as I am. Carry on...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-04-2009 07:14 PM  8 years agoPost 37
Git

rrVeteran

Brunei

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

topic is now closed

au revoir and thanks

Alees Rush 750

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )    >    >> ] 1913 views TOPIC CLOSED
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › rjx fbl grip alternatives
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 7  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, October 18 - 3:09 am - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online