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09-02-2009 04:31 AM  8 years agoPost 41
Thomas Moore

rrApprentice

California

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I'll have to find out more. I guess I can return it to readyheli, and swap the order for the regular vbar. I've seen people with the mini on a 500 sized machine. Should the vbar be mounted as close as possible to the mainshaft or further away?

Thomas Moore Team Avant Team Edge

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09-02-2009 04:32 AM  8 years agoPost 42
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I don't think that will be an issue for two reasons:
(1) An AR7000 (which is what I am using with 8717s @ 8v) will handle the amperage fine and it's power bus has to be equal or less than the Mini VBAR

(2) When you increase voltage, you decrease the amperage used to do the same work.

I think the only problem will be the lack of isolation for the unit on a big nitro bird........Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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09-02-2009 04:33 AM  8 years agoPost 43
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I think the only problem will be the lack of isolation for the unit on a big nitro bird........Ron
This can be compensated for with the software to some extent.

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09-02-2009 04:33 AM  8 years agoPost 44
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Should the vbar be mounted as close as possible to the mainshaft or further away?
It does not matter as long as it faces the rear or the front of the heli and it in line with the center of the mainshaft.......Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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09-02-2009 04:34 AM  8 years agoPost 45
Ronald Thomas

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Gainesville, Fl, USA

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This can be compensated for with the software to some extent.
The only way we will know for sure is if someone tries it.......NOT IT

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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09-02-2009 04:36 AM  8 years agoPost 46
Thomas Moore

rrApprentice

California

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Ok, so voltage is not an issue in theory. And you would think that my tail gyro would have problems currently if there was too much vibration at the tail.

Thomas Moore Team Avant Team Edge

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09-02-2009 04:47 AM  8 years agoPost 47
Thomas Moore

rrApprentice

California

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If the mini vbar is mounted at the tail with the correct dampning, do you think it'll be fine?

I've also thought about creating a mount in place of the battery tray that is mounted with rubber dampning as well as the gyro being mouted with dampning.

Thomas Moore Team Avant Team Edge

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09-02-2009 11:40 AM  8 years agoPost 48
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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I've also thought about creating a mount in place of the battery tray that is mounted with rubber dampning as well as the gyro being mouted with dampning.
That sounds like anexcellent idea. Kinda like the Shrimok motor mount design............Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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09-02-2009 12:18 PM  8 years agoPost 49
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I think many people will be using the mini-V-bar on .90 sized nitro machines in the near future.

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09-02-2009 12:20 PM  8 years agoPost 50
SpeedVision

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Grand Rapids, MI USA

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I guess this all goes back to my "contempt" comment earlier.

Here are some of the facts as I know them...

1. MiniBar is designed and marketed to work on heli's with a 1 meter or less disk.

2. "Designed" can mean many things. The key design element likely evolves around, as Mikado put it, the "vibration signature" of small and micro birds, NOT large birds... I imagine a larger bird will have lower frequency vibes... Most gyros have to tune for all conditions making them less tolerant at the extremes (theoretically). One of the intended benefits of the MiniBar is the small heli focus...

3. I've heard nothing about running a MiniBar on a nitro...thus adding to the complexity of success.

4. Power bus rating is a MYTH, per Mikado.

5. Max voltage for the MiniBar is 9v, so you're good there.

6. As noted above, I would only be a guinnea pig on a beater, not Ferrari..

7. Standard VBar allows you to mount the control unit (all the wires) separately from the gyro, so the gyro is less likely to be influenced by the wires.

8. Standard VBar is intended for your application...and you will be supported if you have a few tuning issues you'd like them to help you with on vstabi.de (great service!!!)...

If you like the thrill of being the first to jump off a big cliff with a little parachute, go for it!

Otherwise, get the standard VBar and enjoy the ride!

Flybarless - The future was yesterday...you in?

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09-02-2009 12:27 PM  8 years agoPost 51
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I imagine any introduction by Mikado of a new full sized V-bar will use the same black sensor plus a new control box with slots for a couple of Spectrum receivers.

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09-02-2009 02:07 PM  8 years agoPost 52
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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(2) When you increase voltage, you decrease the amperage used to do the same work.
Only valid if you change motor in the servo.
Raising voltage on a servo will RAISE the amp since speed & torque will be higher on the servo.
so if the powerbus is the key, running lower voltage to the servo's actually help keeping the amp down.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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09-02-2009 02:29 PM  8 years agoPost 53
ChristianM

rrVeteran

Oslo, Norway

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Only valid if you change motor in the servo.
Raising voltage on a servo will RAISE the amp since speed & torque will be higher on the servo.
so if the powerbus is the key, running lower voltage to the servo's actually help keeping the amp down.
It is true that the max speed and torque will increase if you raise the voltage but this is more or less proportional to the increase in voltage so the max amp draw will be more or less unchanged. Also a motor does not run a max power all the time and will therefore only draw the amps required to do the work that it is asked to so increasing the voltage will reduce the average amps draw.

Also most people use servos that can handle higher voltage so they are in effect changing the motor to suite the voltage level.

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy

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09-02-2009 03:13 PM  8 years agoPost 54
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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used to do the same work.
If the same servo is doing the same job (same torque needed, and speed needed) it will decrease. In the VBAR menu you can effectively change the parameters of the servo speed.........Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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09-02-2009 03:24 PM  8 years agoPost 55
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Been a long time since I tested, but I datalogged 5, 6, 7v on the same heli, and it showed increased ampdraw with voltage increase, quite clear increase.

Harddisk crash took those logs with it, gonna hook on my E-meter next time Im out with my nitro.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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09-02-2009 03:26 PM  8 years agoPost 56
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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That would be good info to see. Please post when you get it.......Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Mini V-Bar.......Works awesome !
09-03-2009 09:54 PM  8 years ago •• Post 57 ••
Thomas Moore

rrApprentice

California

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Got the mini vbar in the mail today. Do you think I should test it with the Heli at idle to see if the low frequency vibrations will make the vbar freak out?

Thomas Moore Team Avant Team Edge

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09-03-2009 10:16 PM  8 years agoPost 58
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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That would be a good idea. Hopefully it does not at all. Good luck......Ron

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09-03-2009 10:20 PM  8 years agoPost 59
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I think you should set the sensor deadband kind of high (like maybe 10) and then slowly back it down until the V-bar freaks out (which it may not). Sensor deadband is how much noise the computer ignores. On my electrics, I have the sensor deadband at zero.

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09-03-2009 10:28 PM  8 years agoPost 60
SpeedVision

rrApprentice

Grand Rapids, MI USA

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I doubt it will freak out. Just make sure your setup is correct to avoid any setup related issues.

You can spool up without blades and watch to see if the cyclic servos start to "dance" indicating a potential vibe issue.

If anything, vibes will dull the precise feeling you are striving for.

I would suggest that you start a new thread for guidance and feedback.

Flybarless - The future was yesterday...you in?

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