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12-31-2009 06:08 PM  7 years agoPost 81
Billme

rrElite Veteran

MS

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Quit playing I don't know BS, you know dang well what you were up to to make yourself look good.. You are pretty sharp, i will give you that, but not good enough...

Ever since IRCHA I have been dealing with this guy, because, since IRCHA, I had broke a gasket, and didn't have another one, so i tried to tighten to much, and stripped the bottom bolt..I still flew, and just richen the needles so I could still fly... He saw this and thinks this was the best i could tune...

i know how this guy thinks..this hand delivery crap is enough, you are head of Testing the Hanson now, so good luck

The Hanson is going to Wally because of your mouth) now... There will be no hanson motor! My other engine will go to toxic Al..

It a real shame you covertly act the way you do, you are a fine pilot, but your bad used car salesman attitude is to much to bear...

Bill

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12-31-2009 06:17 PM  7 years agoPost 82
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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Just a year ago, every manufacture turn their nose up at this engine, because they said it was to heavy, and no power..Remember that Chris Bergen, and Carey Shurley? hehehe
Quite the discussion you all have goin on here...

While I Also agree with Carey's assessment (heavy), the info we go off of is Zenoah's own ratings...I certainly can't afford the TIME, #1, to try to R&D a 1.7 HP gas engine into a .50 size heli...

I certainly applaud you Bill for your foresight, it seems you have figured out a way to make it work!!

Good luck teaching all these guys how to tune it!! LOL...

BTW, if anyone is interested in seeing how a STOCK G26 can run smooth from the very FIRST start and flight, I should have a video up on youtube shortly...

Chris D. Bergen

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12-31-2009 11:09 PM  7 years agoPost 83
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Bill, all I asked for was this...

Instead of this funny talk and calling it a foolish contest, what would really be productive Bill is if you would shoot some videos of your Radikal with the stock motor that you have, and also with your 2nd Radikal with the Hanson modified motor that I hand delivered to you in IRCHA. I know you said that the Hanson was smoother than the stock, but it will do good to show it here for people to see actual data as you got both machines there ready to go, and other Century pilots would be really interested to see what you can show.
If I made you uncomfortable then sorry about that - I really don't know what else to say...

As far as the motor, I wouldn't send it to Wally. That's Hanson's motor that he gave YOU for testing. Honestly I don't believe its yours to give to Wally to reverse engineer or whatever. Of course you can do what you want, I'm just saying I don't think that's right.

At least Chris is being a good sport here and showing what he can do with a stock G26. I commend him for that and all I had hoped for was to see some videos of the stock G20 motor for comparison, that's all.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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01-01-2010 02:57 AM  7 years ago •• Post 84 ••
Dr. Fibinotchi

rrKey Veteran

Sioux Falls SD

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hmm

There are some really good people here that just simply disagree on diffrent things, principals and practices.

Raja and Bill I do hope you come to terms behind closed doors.

I have never had one problem ever with the V4 ever. Its flawless. Zimmerman may be as well only with a little more back pressure.

I would like to see more videos on the Radical from anyone and pushing the machine hard. Raja you as well.

Everyone have a wonderful new year. Its cold in SD.

-C

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

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01-01-2010 03:21 AM  7 years agoPost 85
KopterKat

rrVeteran

New Jersey

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4 - As we get older & more experienced in helis (wimin) we can more appreciate the value of them all.
Now this is the truth. Happy New Year to all, and a special thanks to Toxic Al for helping a stranger


FlipMode Squad

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01-01-2010 04:54 AM  7 years agoPost 86
Billme

rrElite Veteran

MS

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Raja you say that is all you want now, after I caught you trying hoodwink the novice guys. Now lets move on to change the subject to hide that fact.
I see you are planting ideas into people mind about the engine...That is none of your business... Its between me and Al but since you have broadcast it on the internet..

Folks, Al will just bill Century, or it will be replaced. He was given a choice at the time.. Simple as that. There is nothing in the engine to be back engineered.. To insinuate what this crazy person is saying about me, aught to give you a clue as to his agenda..

I have had enough...

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01-01-2010 05:18 AM  7 years agoPost 87
zorba

rrApprentice

Montreal, Quebec,​Canada

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ok let's change the subject. HAPPY NEW YEAR. FROM MONTREAL

3-450's,rex500ESP,rex600G,Rex700G,Raptor60G,FreyaCW-EXII, VarioEC155, Logo20, Cessna310,CL-415,

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01-03-2010 10:22 AM  7 years agoPost 88
Ace2Be

rrNovice

TO, Canada-Asia

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Thanks guys, these "long" posts have excellent information. Keep it up...

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01-04-2010 05:58 PM  7 years agoPost 89
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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Ok, this is clipped and edited out of an informational training type of video included with our CD Manual.

I had to edit it down to get it to the 10 minute limit on Youtube..

The quality should come up when they finish processing it on youtube..But it does show how a STOCK G26 can be smooth from the first pull...IF you follow the instructions....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_g3neB6I84

Chris D. Bergen

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01-04-2010 06:01 PM  7 years agoPost 90
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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So far the only definitive evidence we have of the benefits of a balanced motor is in Raja's close up video of his non-foaming fuel tank. Let's quit arguing about each other's personality and make some more videos. Can you imagine a prosecuting attorney going into court and saying, "The defendant is guilty because I said so!" It makes no sense. We need EVIDENCE if we are going to believe anyone's argument, and so far the only real evidence in this thread has come from Raja.

I think any idiot with an ounce of common sense would attest to the virtues of having an expert dismantle your Zenoah engine and examining the components for the correct balance. Not having your engine balanced makes about as much sense as buying a prebuilt Align helicopter and flying it without checking for Loctite on any of the bolts. Are we really in that much of a hurry?

Even if the stock Zenoah motors runs good, wouldn't it be worth an additional $100 to have them run as vibration free as possible? I guess the people who don't want to pay a little bit extra for a balanced motor can use the money they save to buy new electronics.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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01-04-2010 06:08 PM  7 years agoPost 91
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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Having your engine BALANCED by a profesional does NOT guarantee a smooth running engine!!

My point of the video is that by PROPER tuning, it runs smooth AS IS!! BTW, Is THAT video not evidence enough?

If you tune a BALANCED engine IMPROPERLY guess what you get? A VIBRATOR!!

Spend your $100 bucks how you see fit, OR properly tune your engine and save it for something else...

The question here was about the NECESSITY of having an engine modified, I'm only showing ONE possible reason why it's NOT.

Chris D. Bergen

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01-04-2010 06:25 PM  7 years agoPost 92
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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While it is true that having your engine balanced does not guarantee a smooth running engine, not having your engine balanced almost guarantees you'll never have a smooth running engine unless the motor's natural frequency somehow manages to occur in the 11,500 to 12,500rpm range.

Zenoah motors are industrial motors and are not made with much precision. They are designed for Weed Eaters and Chain Saws. When the original Zenoah engine was invented, nobody ever expected that $2000 worth of precision electronics would be strapped to it.

If a company like Desert Aircraft would design a helicopter motor, we could be assured it would perform flawlessly right out of the box the same way an OS or YS nitro motor does. But for the moment we are stuck using these ancient Zenoah motors. It's worth it to me to have an expert with the right machinery dismantle my motor before it gets anywhere near my electronics.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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01-04-2010 06:32 PM  7 years agoPost 93
pgkevet

rrKey Veteran

Wales

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I welcome any information from folk like Chris...I get the impression he's built a heli or two (or has a d@mn good pit crew..

What I felt was missing from the vid was any sugestion, advice about the tuning. It appeared that the needles were set before ever starting the heli and not touched.

I'd like that magic here.

Next Chris should bring one of his helis over here and let me fly and tune it.. and do a second vid on how not to do it and what I do wrong (bring plenty spares too because we're probably going to be testing Bergen robustness..)

pgk

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01-04-2010 07:12 PM  7 years agoPost 94
Fixit

rrElite Veteran

UK

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My point of the video is that by PROPER tuning, it runs smooth AS IS!! BTW, Is THAT video not evidence enough?
A zoom in on the tank at hover speed would have convinced me more, yes the heli seemed to run smooth but I would still like to see the close up shot.
Unfortunately no two Zenoah engines are the same out of the box so if the crank has bad run out you can set the needles till the cows come home and the vibes will still be there.

I only like to fly gassed up

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01-04-2010 07:18 PM  7 years agoPost 95
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United​Kingdom

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Bergen video

That stock 26 sure sounds sweet to me.Nice job Chris.Shows what can be done with attention to detail.

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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01-04-2010 08:13 PM  7 years agoPost 96
Chris Bergen

rrElite Veteran

cassopolis, MI USA

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I agree that no two engines are IDENTICAL, but I have only had ONE engine, brand new out of the box, that I could not get smooth.

The crank was twisted, I straightenend it, then it worked just like every other engine I've installed and ran in my helicopters.

I did that video early last Spring, and I did it KNOWING that the engine would run smooth. Course you'll have to take my word that we didn't go through 3 engines to get the one good one... LOL..

Guys, I'm not trying to sell you something here, I'm just trying to show that it IS possible to have a smooth engine Without having to balance it.

Is it better to have a properly balanced engine? of course!! But it is NOT mandatory. If there is something mechanically wrong with the engine, definitely send it out to have it looked at. But don't assume that it's screwed up right out of the box.

Oh, and Al IS going to bust my balls for this post...

Chris D. Bergen

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01-04-2010 10:11 PM  7 years agoPost 97
classic

rrElite Veteran

All over the place!

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Having your engine BALANCED by a profesional does NOT guarantee a smooth running engine!!
I gotta agree with Chris on this point,
Having set up as many UAV motors as I have, I have come to the realization that modified or not, it was the final idle set up, and motor alignments that seemed to make the differance.

Just a personal choice, my next "new" gas heli will not have a modified motor in it.

I have nothing against modifiying a motor, I just don't think it is really that necessary. But if some of you guys want to spend money getting one more power to ya
And if I ever buy a heli from someone that has a good modified motor in it I won't complain!

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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01-05-2010 12:44 AM  7 years agoPost 98
imnxtc

rrVeteran

BC.Canada

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Guys, I'm not trying to sell you something here, I'm just trying to show that it IS possible to have a smooth engine Without having to balance it.
Amen to that. Basically what I was trying so diplomatically to say in my earlier post.

I have had a number of gassers, over the years, that have all flown without any fuel foaming.

Once everything is aligned properly, and the engine is set properly, they all ran as smooth or smoother then any number of 90's I have seen at the various events I attend every year.

Of course, after all of that, I am sure there was still vibes happening that were then relatively invisible to the naked eye. And I am sure precision balancing the engines would have got rid of some of these, but I could not justify the cost etc. And all my gassers ultimately amassed a lot of air time.

This is why I personally think having the engine balanced is a plus, but not a necessity.

I have also seen a lot of gasser helis with "balanced and tweeked" Zenoah engines that had vibration issues. These obviously where not built to the precision and with the attention to detail that they should have been.

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