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12-30-2009 04:34 PM  7 years agoPost 21
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Possibly so

Maybe rccarguy didnt have his setup as good as it could have been
And we did some things to improve it such as changing tail blades, mixture, belt tightness, etc.

But my point was, you can start with a helicopter with a stock motor with vibration x, and improve it to x-3. Or you can start with a helicopter with a balanced motor hence vibration levels x-1, and then improve it to (x-1)-3 for a better end result.

Every step you take to reduce vibrations helps. People want the best price they can get to fly a helicopter, and hence why many choose to fly them with stock motors. Also remember that stock motors are not all created equal, with some having truer crankshafts than others. If I remember right, Zenoah tolerance on the shaft is within 2 thousands, so you can get one that is 2 thousands and another that is 1 thousands, both acceptable from the factory. Send it to Hanson, and they always come out of there dead true to around 1/2 thousands.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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12-30-2009 04:51 PM  7 years agoPost 22
rccarguy

rrVeteran

Boston MA

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Maybe rccarguy didnt have his setup as good as it could have been
At that point it certainly wasn't dialed in yet and the engine was still doing break-in. It's very easy for a lot of little things to add up to something very noticeable like the tail pushrod imitating a guitar string, in this case the Radikal was flying in much colder weather than it previously had and the tail belt was much too loose due to the boom contracting in the cold. Combine that with unbalanced tail blades and probably too low of an rpm setting on the rev limiter and yes it was shaking badly.

Since then I've been constantly tweaking to find the optimal setup and it's pretty close now, it will never be completely vibrationless, even with balancing, but it's nothing like it was.

Personally I wouldn't use what was observed at that point time to make a case for all engines needing balancing, statistically a sample of one is meaningless. Once it's completely broken-in and dialed in, then it would be fair to assess what is/is not needed, at least in this case.

That said, yes engines and heli's can benefit from balancing. Do they need to be balanced? Each pilot has to make that determination based on what they observe in their own equipment, there is certainly a large number of gasoline powered helis out in the world that do not have balanced engines and they work as is.

Just sayin...

XCell Spectra G
Radikal G20
Some obsolete nitro helis too...

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12-30-2009 05:22 PM  7 years agoPost 23
Billme

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MS

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The tail blades are crap, I will give you that, but for the most part, most folks have had a good smooth engine with the stock Zenoah...

I can tell you started off wrong by using mineral oil..I would not be surprised if you haven't stuck a ring, which would make it shake...

Fixit, all I can say about your comment is that: Will Align be responsible for the Zenoah engine if they decide to use it, if they ever build one? No, just like Century, they will provide a frame for it, the engine is another matter...

I have several guys in the cold weather up north that are flying the Radikal that have done exactly like I have said, and they are happy, so it must be something that you are doing...

Bill

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12-30-2009 05:54 PM  7 years agoPost 24
rccarguy

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Boston MA

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I can tell you started off wrong by using mineral oil..I would not be surprised if you haven't stuck a ring, which would make it shake...
Really? What should I have used?

I've been building and modifying engines of all types for over 30 years. I know how to break in an engine, and judging by the amount of compression this G20 currently has and the way it runs, there is no ring problem.

Tuning problem on that particular day, yes, the temperature was a good 25 or 30 degrees colder than when it last flew and the engine was still being broken in, runs beautifully now.

XCell Spectra G
Radikal G20
Some obsolete nitro helis too...

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12-30-2009 06:21 PM  7 years agoPost 25
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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The proof is in the video

I always pride myself on stating facts on the forums and not sugar coating anything. That's how I get my reputation what whatever I post is actual experience and not just heresay.

So I'm going to put my money where my mouth is, and upload a hover test video of the Radikal for you to show the vibration levels with the Hanson motor.

You guys flying Radikals can look at it and know right away how it compares to yours. Nobody needs to admit anything if they are not comfortable, but I think it would be very interesting to hear what other people flying Radikals with stock motors have experienced. I know that after I saw rccarguy's Radikal flying I made up my mind I wanted to start with a Hanson balanced motor instead of a stock motor, and I praise Hanson because indeed he can make a smooth motor!

Bill Meador also told me that his Radikal was smoother and better with the Hanson motor than the stock motor, so that makes two of us in agreement.

Know that this video was taken on the 2nd day out, with about 5 flights on the model. The engine is not broken in, its running mineral oil (lawnboy ashless), and its running the stock plastic tail blades but with the pitch turned to leading edge. If they do indeed improve after breakin, then this one is already miles ahead on the smoothness.

Here is the link for the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Pb1H8R01k

If its not too much trouble, I think it would be great if people like Sparx, Helicenter, Billme, Maxhsxv, Crashnburn, imnxtc, Zman and oldfart would chime in and share videos of their machines in a hover. Those are the most voiced Radikal flyers out here that I can think of, and it would make for a good comparison to show the facts.

I do realize not all G20 motors are created equal from Zenoah, and some may certainly be better than others, so it would be very informative to see the statistics of how the stock G20 motors stack up against a balanced motor.

Again, no-one needs to do anything if they are not comfortable with it, at least you'll personally know how it compares to yours if you don't want to share the information here.

P.S. Please ignore the 72Mhz antenna wire. Its flapping in the downwash and I wouldn't guage anything on that held by a rubberband. If I put a whip antenna in the canopy instead, or was on 2.4Ghz, you wouldn't even see it at all.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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12-30-2009 06:28 PM  7 years agoPost 26
Fixit

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UK

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Fixit, all I can say about your comment is that: Will Align be responsible for the Zenoah engine if they decide to use it, if they ever build one? No, just like Century, they will provide a frame for it, the engine is another matter...
Bill, my post was after the shock about Rajas comments and meaning if the stock engine was that bad why sell it, I personally found the 20cc very smooth and probably the smoothest gasser I've had to date and I ran it on synthetic oil from day one, that’s also why I suggested rccarguy maybe didn’t have it setup at its best and we can all do that.
You’re absolutely right a Gasser without an engine is just an airframe.

I only like to fly gassed up

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12-30-2009 07:46 PM  7 years agoPost 27
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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Well I do not know what you expect from this but here it goes.

First off, it is hard to really tell for sure if there is any vibs in that video. The detail is not crisp enough for me to really tell. And my monitor is a 37in running at 1920x1080 high def. They boom and tail rod appear to not be vibrating, but it is "fuzzy" so there could be a high freq vibration that you will not be able to see.

I will state that I do not think you have any vibs in that video as I can tell from other things. I do not see any tail drifting while you are hovering which is a BIG indicator of an engine vib. I do not hear the a vibration being amplified by the canopy when you change the RPM. A high freq vib will come out of a Canopy like it is a Cheerleader screaming into a Bull Horn at a football game.

I do not have a "hover video" like that. I can certainly shoot one the next time I am out flying. But again, I do not know how well that will tell you anything as the clarity of the video is just not going to be good enough for you to see what you want to see.

I do have this video though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNcjuWDUYMY

You can tell from that video that ....
1. There are no vibrations causing the tail to drift
2. There are not vibrations being amplified by the Canopy.
3. The tail is holding rock steady in fast backwards flight
4. The tail is holding during hard collective changes

I am running my Solid G sensor on a single layer of double sided tape. I am also running the gain up pretty high. CY suggests that 39 gain on that gyro is more than adequate, I am running 68. So if there were any vibs coming off that engine, the Gyro would certainly pick it up and all of the things I listed here would be affected.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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12-30-2009 08:10 PM  7 years agoPost 28
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Very nice video!

Honestly the only thing that shows in that video is how well you fly that thing, good job you're really a very good pilot!

Its really hard to see anything like vibrations because you never really sit still in front of the camera anyways. In one shot before you landed real briefly about a 1/3 of the video, you could see the tail wag around but your engine can very well be rich burping which can be heard and its also quite windy.

If you don't mind to shoot a video for comparison, put the camera on the table, I zoomed mine in 3X so you could clearly see the gas tank which I think is most important and the target of my video. I had to hover it pretty close to the camera to do this, almost right on top of it, though it was on the table and I was several feet back behind the table where I was comfortable at a safe distance. I positioned myself so I could see the image on the camera screen and confirm that the heli is in the picture while I hovered. Pick a calm day if possible, you don't need to fight wind trying to stay in the camera view. Its hard enough already with the camera zoomed in at 3X.

Just try to shoot the hover video the same way I did mine, and then vibration levels could be compared. I did all 3 speeds to show the effect on vibrations as they can change with rpms and get worse if you have a vibrating model with faster speeds.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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12-30-2009 08:49 PM  7 years agoPost 29
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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Thanks for the comments on my flying.

As I stated above, there are a number of clues when you have a vibration problem. I think that video clearly shows that none of the other clues are present. Not only can you see a vibrations, but you can hear it as well and you do not hear any in that video.

That tail wag is from being rich. I will most likely not tune it out either. I tune my engines for mid and top end. I keep them rich on the low end, which is where my Radikal seems to be when it is hovering. I do not spend that much time in still hover, so it is of little concern to me to get the best performance there.

The fuel in my tank is sloshing around no more or no less than what is seen in your video. It caught my eye on a few flights and I noted to myself that it was no more or less than what i see in my Nitro birds as well.

As I said, the next opportunity I have to shoot a video like that, I will be more than happy to.

I do have this story to offer up as well. We all make mistakes and overlook things from time to time right? Well, when I installed the new main gear I forgot to tighten down all the engine mounting bolts. When I adjusted my mesh, I just tightened down two of the bottom plate bolts to hold it in place, two that were on opposing sides. I didn't even torque them down tight. I also forgot to tighten down the 2 bolts that secure the Fan base plate to the frame. So basically I only had 2 of the 6 bolts used to mount the engine in place tightened down and not really all that tight at all. The 4 bolts I did not tighten down at all were all only threaded halfway in. Well, I flew the entire day like that. And I was flying it pretty darn hard as I wanted to see what the engine could take with that gear ratio. If I remember right I put somewhere around 8 flights on it that day. When I was sitting down at the end of the day going over in my mind what all I had done, I realized I had forgotten to tighten those bolts down! My first thought was.. OMG I am surprised that engine did not depard from the helicopter as hard as I was flying it. My second though was..... Damnit, I am sure those bolts fell off in flight and now I am going to have to go to the hardware store tomorrow to get replacements. I am sure they vibrated out of the threads. My next thought was.... I am surprised I didn't see the helicopter vibrating like crazy as it is not really secured as intended, there are just 2 lightly tightened bolts doing the job that 6 are supposed to do. So I go out to see what damage I had done. All the screws were still there. None of the ones I had forgot to tighten up that were threaded only half way in were all right where they should be. There was no signs of any vibration damage on the bottom engine plate either.

Why am I sharing my lack of attention to detail when working on my heli.... simple. If that engine was a vibration monster as you seem to think it is, then all those screws would have surely come out in flight and the engine should have been vibrating the heck out of the heli as it was not secured at all. But neither of those two things happened.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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12-30-2009 08:52 PM  7 years agoPost 30
smallplanes

rrElite Veteran

S.C. ,SSA

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Raja is right the factory motor runs like crap get Hanson to work on it the start with and save yourself a lot of time and money. I'm talking about the 26 here i can't say about the 20 but i'm sure it's the same. I myself will never on any brand gasser try to run a stock motor again,i was so mad with this thing i wanted to quit but i stuck with it and so far since the motor work i've had no real problems. Well my tail did spin a little on the tail boom but since have wraped it with black tape and put it back on it has stayed in place. Just do yourself a favor get someone how knows motors to balance it for you. That is the biggest tip i can give you.

Thanks and good luck.


Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br

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12-30-2009 09:02 PM  7 years agoPost 31
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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I'm talking about the 26 here i can't say about the 20 but i'm sure it's the same.
How can you even say that? YOu have no experience with the 20, but because you did with the 26, it MUST be the same?

I am sorry, but I have yet to see a NEED to have the Zenoah 20 sent out to be "fixed". I am not saying that having Hanson or any of the others will not be a benefit to the engine, but it surely is not needed from my experience.

Look, this is my first experience with a Gasser. I have never even flown one before the Radikal. The only 2 stroke gasser engines I have dealt with in the past are in my chainsaw, weed eater and snow blower. And I do not do squat to them but put fuel in them and use them. I cannot even remember if I ever tuned the engine in them at all. Hell, I cannot even tell you what Fuelil Mixture I am using in them right now or what they are supposed to have.

I entered into this Radikal project with a lot of preconceived notions about gassers. All of them from reading various forums about them. And I have to say that none of my reservations about getting a gasser have come true. I find the engine very easy to tune. I find it is smooth running engine. The Radikal is not as much of a "pig" in the air as I thought it was going to be. It is no different to me than any of my Nitro helis other than I am spending a lot less in fuel costs and it is not as "snappy" in the air.

So I guess I am confused a bit because I am not experiencing all these bad things and having to learn new things like everyone told me I would. I built it, set it up, tuned it and flew it no different than any other flying model I have done in the past.

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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12-30-2009 09:19 PM  7 years agoPost 32
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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I'm glad to hear you say that Sparx!

We need more people like you saying this:
I entered into this Radikal project with a lot of preconceived notions about gassers. All of them from reading various forums about them. And I have to say that none of my reservations about getting a gasser have come true. I find the engine very easy to tune. I find it is smooth running engine. The Radikal is not as much of a "pig" in the air as I thought it was going to be. It is no different to me than any of my Nitro helis other than I am spending a lot less in fuel costs and it is not as "snappy" in the air.
I try to make this point but often you get the nay sayers posting it will never been as much fun as a nitro or it costs too much money or it gets damaged too much from its weight when it hits.

At least someone here other than "experts" is successful with it and that's a good indication to others that they too can do it. You get people that come out and say only the "experts" are successful with these things, but I think if you put your mind to it, everyone can be. Its just a little different from nitros, but anyone can learn to use and be happy with them just like they did with nitros.

Not to disagree with you, I know this is your first gasser, but the only way to believe that a Hanson motor is better than a stock motor is to experience it yourself. I too back in 1997 when I started questioned whether I need to spend money on a Hanson modified motor, I was flying OK with my stock G23. But I'll admit, and not for the first time do a search here you'll find from years ago posts, that when I swapped that G23 out for a balanced G23 (sent it in for balancing) the only thing that changed was that Bruce Hanson worked on that motor, and the first thing I noticed was that my fins stopped buzzing. That day, when I saw that, it was worth it if nothing else, but the engine came with also more power, and I could tumble continuously without bogging whereas before it would bog after the third tumble. An added bonus but the lesser vibrations were the best value in my mind.

I guess step 1, if you want to investigate this further, is to shoot a video and lets look at it closely and see how the tail looks along with the gas tank. You'll want the tank about 2/3rd full no more than 3/4. Fly it around and warm it up for a few minutes first - that's a good idea anyways. If the tank is too full you can't see much sloshing as there is no room for it.

Then, if you do see some differences than mine, at least you have a log for it as having a video is much better than remembering what it was like. Only then should you decide to go to the next step and have the motor balanced/lightened piston, etc, you could shoot another video and compare the two, and you would know for sure for yourself.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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12-30-2009 09:44 PM  7 years agoPost 33
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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Raja,

I am going to be totally honest here. I hope you do not get too offended by it, but I feel the need for some reason.
I try to make this point but often you get the nay sayers posting it will never been as much fun as a nitro or it costs too much money or it gets damaged too much from its weight when it hits.

At least someone here other than "experts" is successful with it and that's a good indication to others that they too can do it. You get people that come out and say only the "experts" are successful with these things, but I think if you put your mind to it, everyone can be. Its just a little different from nitros, but anyone can learn to use and be happy with them just like they did with nitros.
I am totally confused by you making these statements. I am not going to take the time to go and find the posts to quote, but I have seen you say NUMEROUS times thing like.....

-- This is a gasser folks, you cannot treat it like a nitro.
-- Gassers and Nitro are no where near the same

You get the point I think. But what I stated is that I do not feel there is that much of a difference between them to be of notice. There are some flying characteristics yes, but to build, setup and tune them, it was not all that different. Sure a gasser engine has a different "character" about it, but that can be said about any two engines when comparing them. I do not treat my Thunder Tiger 53 Nitros like I do my OS 50 Hypers. They are not the same engines. They have their own "personalities". So I think it is not different with this Zenoah 20. Learn its "personalities" just like you would any other engine.

My point is, I think you have been one of the most "vocal" people when it comes to saying how "difficult" a Gasser Heli is to learn.
Not to disagree with you, I know this is your first gasser, but the only way to believe that a Hanson motor is better than a stock motor is to experience it yourself. I too back in 1997 when I started questioned whether I need to spend money on a Hanson modified motor, I was flying OK with my stock G23. But I'll admit, and not for the first time do a search here you'll find from years ago posts, that when I swapped that G23 out for a balanced G23 (sent it in for balancing) the only thing that changed was that Bruce Hanson worked on that motor, and the first thing I noticed was that my fins stopped buzzing. That day, when I saw that, it was worth it if nothing else, but the engine came with also more power, and I could tumble continuously without bogging whereas before it would bog after the third tumble. An added bonus but the lesser vibrations were the best value in my mind.
Again, in the spirit of honesty, when I read that all I see is a big "Advertisement" for Hanson Motors. And I sense that tone each and every time you bring up the subject. I do not need to own a Hanson motor to know that my Stock motor is working just fine. Mine is flying with little to no vibration, is not lacking in power and just plain works.

As I said, I am sure there are benefits of having Hanson engine, but I really do not see a NEED for them. You constantly make it like if you do not have these engines worked over by Hanson, you will not succeed.

I do not feel it is fair to not offer the other side of the coin when these discussions come up. Someone who might be considering this heli and engine should be presented with as much info that is out there so they can make their own decisions.
I guess step 1, if you want to investigate this further, is to shoot a video and lets look at it closely and see how the tail looks along with the gas tank. You'll want the tank about 2/3rd full no more than 3/4. Fly it around and warm it up for a few minutes first - that's a good idea anyways. If the tank is too full you can't see much sloshing as there is no room for it
As I said, I will be more than happy to do it when I have the opportunity to do so. But it is not high on my list of priorities because I do not feel I have something I need to find. I seen no difference in yours vs mine. But in the spirit of "full disclosure", as this seems to be what you are looking for, I will happily do it when I can.
Then, if you do see some differences than mine, at least you have a log for it as having a video is much better than remembering what it was like. Only then should you decide to go to the next step and have the motor balanced/lightened piston, etc, you could shoot another video and compare the two, and you would know for sure for yourself.
In all honesty, I do not need a video to do that. I have a pretty good memory for details. How often do you remember 10 hours later that you forgot to tighten down some bolts

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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12-30-2009 10:23 PM  7 years agoPost 34
smallplanes

rrElite Veteran

S.C. ,SSA

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Sparx I was only giving my opinion on how it must be seeing it's a Zenoah. But i guess i must be some dumb A$$,you learn and let learn it don't make a crap to me do what you want i'm just saying what i saw first hand with my own motor. Tell me this why wound they make the 20 any better from the factory than they did the 26? These are cheap built weedeater motors why would they spend the extra time to balance and port the motor? Only try to help don't get mad at me.

Thanks and i hope some of you got the tip.


Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br

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12-30-2009 10:37 PM  7 years agoPost 35
zorba

rrApprentice

Montreal, Quebec, Canada

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Sparx why don't you post a video of your flying and let's see what she sounds like.

3-450's,rex500ESP,rex600G,Rex700G,Raptor60G,FreyaCW-EXII, VarioEC155, Logo20, Cessna310,CL-415,

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12-30-2009 10:44 PM  7 years agoPost 36
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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You know you're right

When I was making dinner I thought about what I said and felt that perhaps I was being too forceful or pushy about the subject. I do apologize for that and you do what you do and enjoy it. I only wanted to add that if some day down the road you do get a modified motor, and you do find that its better than what you had, please post it here.

Now that I said what I thought about I'll address what you already replied to:

Those statements that I made were in relations to people saying the Radikal hub always worked on their nitro, why shouldn't it work on the gasser. Gassers are more vibrant than nitros, its a known fact, and hence why we do all we can do to minimize it and help them live a better life. Things that are designed to hold up to nitros are not the same to hold up to gassers. Gassers need to be beefier in some areas and sections, from frames to other parts.
My point is, I think you have been one of the most "vocal" people when it comes to saying how "difficult" a Gasser Heli is to learn.
If anyone ever thought that its never been my point or intension. You know how much I love my gassers and like to see more people fly them locally and to funfly's that I go to.

Unfortunately I only have experience with Hanson motors so I cannot talk about other modifier's motors as I don't have first hand experience with them. Don't take it as any advertisement, you can substitute any engine modifier of your liking in the statements, I can only talk about what I have experience with. I'm sure they all do good work nontheless

As I said in the first paragraph before I started to respond to your post, I also felt that I probably over pushed the need for a balanced motor and I am again apologizing for that. Too often I'm trying to help folks shortcut my learning experiences and fast forward to success without having to suffer through the same learning curves that I did. People's helicopters that I have programmed and setup over a couple of says at funfly's most likely saved them 6 months of trial and error learning curves. I should just really let people do what they do and eventually they will come full circle around on their own

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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12-30-2009 10:53 PM  7 years agoPost 37
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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Sparx why don't you post a video of your flying and let's see what she sounds like.
I did post a video. You might have missed it because I did not embed it. So here it is embedded for you

Watch at YouTube

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
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12-30-2009 11:00 PM  7 years agoPost 38
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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That's a great flying video

As I said, I will be more than happy to do it when I have the opportunity to do so. But it is not high on my list of priorities because I do not feel I have something I need to find. I seen no difference in yours vs mine. But in the spirit of "full disclosure", as this seems to be what you are looking for, I will happily do it when I can.
When you do get that hover video, I'd certainly be interested to see that. And I was hoping from more than just one person, to build a data fact sheet so to speak. Even Zman's with his stock motor and then Wally modified motor that he's waiting on. I'm sure that will show improvement as well, but let's not guess, let's show it.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4129 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3187 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1425 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 185 flts

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12-30-2009 11:24 PM  7 years agoPost 39
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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I wouldn't exactly say they have more vibrations, just different. Nitros operate at much higher RPM, so how the "beat" and how at gasser "beat" on a heli are going to be much different. The vibs that come off a gasser engine, IMO, are more noticeable because they are of a lower frequency. The same attention you give vibs in a Gasser should be no different than those you give to a Nitro. IMO, it is going to be harder to see or hear a vib in a Nitro heli. It is also IMO, that a vib problem on a Nitro will not necessarily cause more damage than on a Gasser, but it will do it faster. It is vibrating on a higher frequency. So if it is causing something we rub against something else, it will happen 1000's of more times per minute than it will on a Gasser. But really, now that I think about it, all thing will become equal because the force is most likely greater in the Gassers vibration. I guess what I am saying here is that neither a Gasser or Nitro is better off when it comes down to vibration problems. They just have to be dealt with in different manners.

What is can be different is the source of these vibration problems. Gassers seem more prone to the engines being the source. I am sure that has everything to do with that Gasser engines are not really designed for how we are using them where a Nitro engine is. But that does not mean that every time you have a vibration on a Gasser that it is the fault of the engine. There are A LOT of spinning "do hickeys" on this Helis, anyone of them could be the cause.

Now Raja, you have said yourself that you have only dealt with Hansons for quite sometime now. So while the Zenoahs of the past were bad, does not mean that the Zenoahs of the present are as well. I have worked in many production facilities that produce a wide range of products. I can tell you that in all these facilities there is one commonality. They are always striving for two things, to produce a better product at a lower cost. And this is an ON GOING process. None of them I have worked with have ever said.... "OK, that is good enough we do not need to try and improve anymore". My point is, I would place a pretty hefty bet that the same has been done Zenoahs production facilities over the years. SO a Zenoah you had 10 years ago is not the same as the Zenoah you would get today.

I can certainly tell you this much. I kept a watchful eye on Gasser helis for the better part of a year. When I first hear about the Radikal coming out I started reading and reading and then reading some more. What I read and what I have experienced are on total opposite sides of the spectrum. I was still very hesitant on getting a Radikal because I didn't want to deal with the "Gasser Problems" I had read about. I am glad I decided to see it for myself.
Too often I'm trying to help folks shortcut my learning experiences and fast forward to success without having to suffer through the same learning curves that I did. People's helicopters that I have programmed and setup over a couple of says at funfly's most likely saved them 6 months of trial and error learning curves.
This IMO does not help people in this hobby. I flat out refuse to fix people's problems for them here. I will help them, I will give them the info they need to figure it out, but I will not do it for them. Odds are those people you helped by doing this have had that same type of help the entire time they have been in the hobby. You learn from experience. You need to learn what you have learned and how to apply it to new situations. If they hadn't taken the time to learn before, then they have no base to use when getting into a new situation.
I should just really let people do what they do and eventually they will come full circle around on their own
See, now we are back to where we started. I read that as... "If you do not get your Engine modified now, you will see I am right and you will have to get it done later because I am right and they are wrong."

*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip

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12-30-2009 11:26 PM  7 years agoPost 40
smallplanes

rrElite Veteran

S.C. ,SSA

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Sounded like it was running like a top,what muffler do you have on that thing? My 26 is very loud with the stock can muffler. I did see your tail bounce but you kept hitting thr hold,i would like to see an eye level hover for a minute or two? My spectra still has a bounce to but i'm still on the rich side.


Spectra G 26cc
Jewel
Bat 27cc
Trex 700<br

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