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HelicopterHIROBOHirobo Freya Docs  Electic Freya?
11-23-2009 12:49 AM  8 years agoPost 141
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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Sounds good, Doc.

Have you done a full, standard Class III flight yet to see what the current consumption is working out to?

Erich

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11-23-2009 01:07 AM  8 years agoPost 142
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Erich,

Yes, I have. I was consuming a bit over 3000 mA's rushing a bit. If I slow it down to work around about a 8:20 flightime, I should use about 3800 mA's. A point that I hadn't considered early on is that the auto is close to 30 seconds of flight time between cruising into and set up with modest pitch in the model and then the descent which takes no current at all. The numbers I quoted earlier for the aeros were with the exact same length run-in stretches I use with a glow model. I was making no special effort to stay out of the collective, though I saw no point in flying around at WOT when the model was grooving at 2/3 of WOT.

The aeros take barely 3 minutes and can be accomplshed with just over 2000 mA's. Hover is pretty efficient. I can go 10+ minutes on a charge.

I haven't even begun to address energy management techniques for the aeros like using shorter run in's and even switching out of full blown idle up to a cruise rpm between maneuvers. The consumption figures so far suggest that these adjustments will be required very little, if at all. The main thing I see so far in the wind is that you have to avoid mashing on the collective. It's OK to have the model slow down a little coming into the wind, even though it has the power to go almost as fast as it does in the calm. You just ask for the power when it's really time to execute the maneuver, and it'll be there.

Everything I've seen so far suggests that the arguments we made for 12S are holding true. The power system is truly NOT stressing at all.

Ben

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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11-23-2009 01:25 AM  8 years agoPost 143
F1 Rocket

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Melbourne, Florida ​USA

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HI Ben,

Sounds like the plan is working out . Are you still running the Hobby City packs?

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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11-23-2009 04:23 AM  8 years agoPost 144
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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No Danny, I'm running RFI packs. They're doing quite well. Staying very well matched.

Ben

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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11-23-2009 04:45 AM  8 years agoPost 145
F1 Rocket

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Melbourne, Florida ​USA

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I'm running RFI packs.
Cool. What C rating are they? The reason I ask is I have been testing a lot of packs lately and have noticed that the higher C rated packs are turning out to be a bit more efficient than the lower C rated packs. I believe this is due to the higher average voltage under load which allows a bit lower gov setting. This translates into a bit longer run time “if” the power levels are equal. Only problem is staying out of the extra available power.

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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11-23-2009 05:39 AM  8 years agoPost 146
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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These packs are 30 C, Danny.

In other news, I just got done sitting in the floor in the living room doing some data logging. Nothing like sitting beside 2000 rpm <g>. Anyway, real time current readings show outrunner mode is a fuzz more efficient than 8 kHz. 8 kHz is just slightly smoother driving the motor. You can hear it in the gear sounds and just slightly in the smoothness in the airframe with it runnning. I'd have to fly and datalog both settings to see if it's going to make a statistically significant difference in overall efficiency/runtime.

Ben

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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11-23-2009 01:13 PM  8 years agoPost 147
F1 Rocket

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Melbourne, Florida ​USA

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In other news, I just got done sitting in the floor in the living room doing some data logging. Nothing like sitting beside 2000 rpm
You....are nuts

Danny

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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11-23-2009 01:51 PM  8 years agoPost 148
ErichF

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Sutton, NH

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Heh, me too, so I was told for doing this:

Watch at YouTube

Erich

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11-23-2009 06:10 PM  8 years agoPost 149
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Main blades were off and cats locked in the bedroom.

Ben

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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11-23-2009 10:58 PM  8 years agoPost 150
pepenk

rrApprentice

Jakarta, Indonesia

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Dear Dr. Ben,
I'm now preparing my E3 VPUS electric conversion using exacly the same equipments and configuration.
However, I'm not sure of how to program the CC ESC and the radio throttle curve with governor mode.

If possible could you please post your current CC ESC program data and your radio throttle curve or set up.

Thanks and regards,
Ferri
INA 0083

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11-24-2009 12:48 AM  8 years agoPost 151
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Sure,

You can use either the "set rpm mode" in which you program in the head speeds you desire on the the computer screen, or "governor high mode" which sets the headspeed off your throttle curves. Before you set up either of these governor options, calibrate your ESC's endpoints in "fixed endpoints".

For set rpm, a straight line throttle curve anywhere between 0 and 49% will be speed option 1 which you program into the software on the computer screen. Use that for hover rpm. Anything from 50 to 99% is speed option 2 and is one of your idle ups. 99% to WOT is the third speed choice if you desire. I keep the curves for 2 and 3 the same since I run right at 2K upstairs for everything. Set rpm mode requires that you provide the software with the pole count of your motor, gear ratio, and battery voltage/chemistry.

For "governor high mode", straight line throttle curves set your head speed. You'll need to either tach the model with a datalogger brushless rpm sensor, a handheld tach on the flybar paddles with the main blades removed, or have a friend tach your model in flight.

I either the lowest or close to the lowest of the available options for motor soft start and start up power (under the motor section for the latter). Use the "custom" option to get down in the single digits. For the value affecting the rate at which rpm changes, use the lowest value you can while still allowing for a safe power on recovery from an auto. I keep these numbers as low as possible because it's SO much easier on the driveline and draws less current. Mine is set up so there is essentially no jolt to the drivetrain at all when I power on. My model reaches full idle up rpm after hover about 1/3 of the way out to the first turnaround for aerobatics.

The "motor" section has choices for timing and pwm. Keep the timing at low for now and set PWM for 8 kHz. If you have an outrunner motor, try the "outrunner" mode. I'm still going back and forth between 8 kHz and outrunner on my Scorpion trying to see which is smoother; both are quite good.

Does this help some?

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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11-26-2009 03:47 PM  7 years agoPost 152
pepenk

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Jakarta, Indonesia

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Thank you for your response.
It really helps. Although I'm not sure whether I'm fully understand or not.

As per CC recommendation, we should calibrate the ESC with "heli-fixed endpoints".

Then for the Governor mode set up, assuming we use Futaba 14MZ/12FG, how will be the throttle curve looks like? like you said is it stright horizontal line with % set the head speed? What about at idle? Shoul w also drop the curve to 0%? Are we connected the lead of the ESC to throttle chanel at the receiver?

Sorry for this stupid questions. But this is my first large electric heli and my first time to use governor mode.

Thanks and regards,
Ferri Iriandi
INA 0083

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11-27-2009 02:53 AM  7 years agoPost 153
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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As per CC recommendation, we should calibrate the ESC with "heli-fixed endpoints".

>>Correct. Calibrate in fixed endpoint option.

Then for the Governor mode set up, assuming we use Futaba 14MZ/12FG, how will be the throttle curve looks like? like you said is it stright horizontal line with % set the head speed? What about at idle? Shoul w also drop the curve to 0%? Are we connected the lead of the ESC to throttle chanel at the receiver?

>>The idle ups are a straight line. I use two points, one at each end of the line. For normal/hover, my first point is at 0 percent. I then have the first point of the first line just a little ways over on the x axis, about halfway to where the default first point would be. The MZ of course allows you to move it over to the left. After that second point, it's a straight line all the way over. The other way you can do it is to have a starting curve with 0% throttle all the way across, and then have your hovering curve a straight line across like the idle ups only lower to give less headspeed. In the past some people have armed the controller in throttle hold and then switched into their hover condition, once again a straight line. You can't do it this way now with the new autorotation software because for soft start to work, it must see basically 0 on the throttle outut signal. If you switch out of hold into a curve which has all its points above zero, the controller assumes you're bailing out of an auto and ramps up a lot more quickly.

Sorry for this stupid questions. But this is my first large electric heli and my first time to use governor mode.

>>No problem. Ask more if needed. If you pm an email address, I can send you the Eagle's model file.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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11-27-2009 10:30 AM  7 years agoPost 154
pepenk

rrApprentice

Jakarta, Indonesia

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Hai,
just test flight the E3 today.
Everything works properly. I got 1500 rpm HS.
the heli feels soo smoooth....
Until 5 minutes hover, the motor quits and never run again.

I tried to start all over again but no response from CC ESC.
Could the CC ESC been damaged? Why? is this can be repaired?

Dr Ben, it would be helpful if you could send me the your E3 program data. My active email is penkiboat@yahoo.com

Thanks and regards,
Ferri
INA 0083

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11-27-2009 01:03 PM  7 years agoPost 155
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

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Yes, the FETs are likely blown. I went through two CC110HV ESCs on an Observer conversion using the Plettenburgh 375 motor. I think that the internal timing of some motors cause a back EMF that damages the FETs. In both cases, I got 6 minutes into the flight when the motor would just quit. On the second ESC, I was able to get it running again, but 5 minutes into the next flight, the ESC literally blew up.

What motor are you using, and which Castle ESC?

Erich

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11-27-2009 03:54 PM  7 years agoPost 156
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Ferri,

These esc's are typically not repairable if FET's are blown, but for ones out of warranty, Castle has a sensibly priced flat rate exchange. If you have a 110, I know from a friend that CC had a batch that had some bad components in them; they failed very quickly. The replacement was fine.

Aside from what Erich mentioned, there is nothing in the "numbers" of your set up that should have stressed that ESC in hover; the highest current mine ever sees is 70 amps, and that's in aerobatics. Thus you likely just had a bad one.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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11-27-2009 09:27 PM  7 years agoPost 157
pepenk

rrApprentice

Jakarta, Indonesia

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Thanks for the response.
I am using Scorpion 4035 500 kV on 9.5:1 gear ratio. The ESC was Phoenix 85 HV.
After the motor quit, everything seems to bne normal.
No overheating to the batteies, wires, connectors even the ESC itself.
The mechanics were smooth. Then i chrged the batteries again to check whether over cuurent occured and it only take 470 mAh to get the batteries pack fully charged.

So I just gotthe bad ESC? Damaged only at the firsy flight.
If i could the warranty, Sjould i send it to LHSwhere i bought it?

Thanks and regards,
Ferri
INA 0083

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11-27-2009 10:01 PM  7 years agoPost 158
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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I'm not sure about how overseas warranty issues are handled. You'll likely have to send it directly to Castle Creations for warranty service.

Ben

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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11-30-2009 12:53 AM  7 years agoPost 159
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Hi all,

Just an update. I'm getting into 2000 grit sandpaper in the "polishing" of this electric Eagle. The "gloss" is starting to appear.

The HV85 and Scorpion 500kV seem happiest at 8 PWM, 0 timing, and set RPM mode for governor. 1475 in hover and 1980 upsatirs.

The gear where I had prior to tweaking the motor mounting angle has been eliminated.

Mostly just trimming the aeros now. All is running well.

Ben Minor

Team Synergy Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
Progressive RC

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11-30-2009 06:47 AM  7 years agoPost 160
ATR

rrApprentice

sweden

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...

DrBen! ARe you polishing the frames or what?If so drop a pic in this thread.

I will shortly starting to build a new eagle3AOCC to a 12S electric ship. I will post some pics here later when ive got started with it.

All the best from Sweden

/Bjorn

Fulltime helinut!!

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