RunRyder RC
 11  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 1 page 1176 views POST REPLY
HelicopterMain Discussion › Can anyone answer this?
06-06-2009 11:27 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Blades345

rrVeteran

FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

have my Protos 500 with a Scorpion 880kv on it and unforutnately I am running 5S 3000mAh on it. I am waiting for some 6S's to get here, but until then I have to stick with the 5S. I was flying today at full speed when I attempted to do some flips and quick turns and the tail spun to the right hard then back when tried to correct,, really got me nervous. I was able to gain control but it happened again later when I was at top speed again doing tricks. Is it because my voltage isn't high enough on the 5S and its not holding the tail? Would a 6S hold the tail at top speed where it won't do that! It really had my pucker factor going since it took a second to get control. My buddy says the tail blades aren't spinning fast enough with a 5S since its not putting out enough voltage. Anyone know? Plese help! I am running a Mini G gyro on it so I know its not because its a bad gyro!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-06-2009 11:35 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Your friend sounds like an idiot. Don't listen to him.

The answer is either

A)You're in Rate Mode, not in HH mode,
B)not running enough gain on the gyro,
C)you have a really slow, inadequate tail servo.
D)tail problem was pilot induced (stick input)

My money is on A or B

  ▲
▲ ▲

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-06-2009 11:42 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Blades345

rrVeteran

FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm almost dead positive I'm not in Rate mode, but I probably do need to check my gain. It definitely wasn't input error, the heli just went wild for a sec with the tail. My servo is a Futaba 9257, so I doubt its the tail servo since that is very quick. I will mess with the gain and see if that corrects it. Thank you for the input.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-06-2009 11:55 PM  8 years agoPost 4
LONEWOLF2440

rrElite Veteran

MYRTLE BEACH S.C

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I say same thing as dood

MIKADO LOGO 600 TREX 550

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2009 12:44 AM  8 years agoPost 5
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What head speed, what gear ratios, what tail blades, what gyro mounting scheme ?

Vegetable rights and Peace

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2009 01:36 AM  8 years agoPost 6
30636086

rrKey Veteran

Tacoma, WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Your friend sounds like an idiot. Don't listen to him
+1
and I go for "B"
B)not running enough gain on the gyro,
The safest way is to find someone other than your "friend" to help you set it right like at your local flying field, someone that has same or similar set up and is willing to answer your questions.

Ask questions so you can learn and solve it, some times is tricky and guys that have been flying for a while can help because they have been tru the same before. My .02

I dont suffer from mental iIlness, I actually enjoy mine!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2009 01:53 AM  8 years agoPost 7
tadawson

rrElite Veteran

Lewisville, TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

One other possibility is a bad mechanical setup which only allows limited pitch correction in one direction. Did you check your setup in rate mode?

- Tim

Friends don't let friends become electrotarded . . . .

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2009 01:57 AM  8 years agoPost 8
Blades345

rrVeteran

FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

To answer you question Yug, I am running the stock tail blades, my gyro is mounted underneath the back frame where the tail connects, and I'm not sure of my headspeed yet, because I haven't gotten to tach it. I will find out tomorrow.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2009 02:02 AM  8 years agoPost 9
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Why are you guys poo-pooing his friend's advice so easily? You all should darn well know that inadequate RPM can and will cause a tail stall during max collective and power combinations, especially if the head is bogging.

A 500 size bird on 5S needs good collective management; none of you know how hard the OP is hammering the collective, cyclic, or what demands on the tail he is making. Maybe there isn't enough mechanical pitch available on the tail? Low RPM would aggravate such a situation. We don't know the ESC setup, throttle curves, pitch demands, etc.

His buddy knows a lot more about the situation than any of you armchair jockeys. At least he was THERE, and probably heard the RPM drop, leading to his conclusion and following advice.

Erich

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2009 07:54 AM  8 years agoPost 10
WillyS

rrNovice

HOBART, OK USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Your friend sounds like an idiot. Don't listen to him.
A little harsh don't you think?

It's funny how this website allows some too say whatever they want and all is well,then when others post the truth about someones bullsh!t ways their post is deleted.That's the way it is when you're playing in anothers sandbox.
His buddy knows a lot more about the situation than any of you armchair jockeys
And just what the heck are you thinking posting crap like that?There are nothing but true professional sponsored computer forum posting pilots here on RR,all you have too do is ask and "they" shall reply.

Blade345 have someone tach the head and get back too us with the headspeed,I think the issue may be headspeed related.Sorry you have too get smarta$$ replies here,not everyone on this site is an a$$hat.Welcome aboard.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2009 09:53 AM  8 years agoPost 11
30636086

rrKey Veteran

Tacoma, WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

WillyS
Heliman
Location: HOBART, OK USA
It's funny how this website allows some too say whatever they want and all is well,then when others post the truth about someones bullsh!t ways their post is deleted.That's the way it is when you're playing in anothers sandbox.

I dont suffer from mental iIlness, I actually enjoy mine!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2009 12:40 PM  8 years agoPost 12
red_sash

rrApprentice

Canberra, Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

also
pinion skipping or belt loose

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2009 07:45 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Blades345

rrVeteran

FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Its ok, every website has it. My friend is far from an idiot though. He has been flying for about 6 years now and knows a Sh$#load of things about helis. I don't doubt what he says about things, but I'm always curious to hear other opinions. I haven't been able to tach my head speed just yet. I put my gain up to 87% now and it still isn't perfect. I am not changing out my tail blades to the carbon CY blades and I will be getting my 6S's soon enough I hope. The belt isn't loose and I've checked over everything else. I will see how much the new carbon blades help along with the 6S. I'll let you guys know when I get it figured out. THank you all for your responses.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-07-2009 09:42 PM  8 years agoPost 14
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What Blades345 failed to give was the motor to head gear ratio along with the KV of his motor making any guess at head speed impossible.

But some people here were quite willing to assume it was enough even though the symptoms point to not enough.

The rotor diameter or blade size for those not familiar with what that Protos 500 has can be quite informative. RPM of the head is a large factor to do with the blade size.

So, Blades345, if you are happy with vague guessing answers, then keep limiting the details you provide.

(Your friend is probably right)

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2009 12:28 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Some of you guys are harsh. Stereotypical attitudes which p!ss off so many non US folk give the guy a break.
Blades345 - the Mini G is a reasonably good gyro and from what you've said, there is an issue with tail authority somewhere in the train. It would be great if you could furnish us with more details like your tail servo, gyro gain and so on. It's ALL important. To be going on with, is there any binding in the TR linkage and are your TBs well balanced ?

Vegetable rights and Peace

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2009 12:46 AM  8 years agoPost 16
BONO1

rrApprentice

AR

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

tail
Make sure the linkage is free and does not stick in any position. My friend had the same thing happen and it was just a case of no lube on the tailshaft. A little lube and it never did it again.
Just a thouoght of something else to check.
Sam

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2009 01:29 AM  8 years agoPost 17
Spitfire1

rrElite Veteran

Perth Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Could be something as simple as not running high enough t/curves, I would advise 100% across all points no matter what the head speed ends up being.
I would not of thought 5s pack would be too bad, I used to fly a Hdx 500 on 4s and it went great, my new 500 on 6s does fly much better though.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2009 01:38 AM  8 years agoPost 18
Blades345

rrVeteran

FL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Look, I am not the greatest when it comes to heli setups. I can tell you that the motor is a Scorpion 880KV and I'm running a 15T. The linkage on the tail isn't sticking and seems to be smooth. I don't know the headspeed yet because I have no Tach,, and as for the gear ratio, I would have to ask my friend because I don't know it. I am very new to this still and learning, but I can find out all this information from my friend who knows all this stuff. I'm not trying to annoy anyone on her by being vague, but I have been able to meet up with my friend so he can look at it all. I believe I am running 90 flat across in idle 2 and 85 in idle one. I have the 9257 coupled with the Mini G gyro for the tail with stock plastic blades, which aren't stiff at all. All this is being run on a 5S 3000 mAh 18.5V. I don't know what information to put in the post and once agian, I am new, so I don't know much about gain, expo, gear ratios. Sorry! I didn't post this though for people to make asinine comments and to be put down for what I don't know. I appreciate the help from everyone that really tried to figure out it. Thank you!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
06-08-2009 01:50 AM  8 years agoPost 19
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I think the OP would get more detailed answers in the Protos forum but since I also own one and decided to do my monthly visit to the main discussion today do here it goes...

1) Let me understand exactly what you were doing... full speed and flips doesn't mix that good unless you were doing traveling flips? Can you explain the maneuver with more details?

2) The tail let loose during a quick turn (aileron I suppose) at full speed? In FFF the tail either follows the heli (rate mode or HH not holding) or its locked in. There is no way its going to break out since the gyro would actually need to give a alot of input to the tail to overcome the path of the heli. Backwards flight sure, inverted backwards also but in stock FFF? Physically I can't see it happen. So if this indeed happen like you described it, something else is going on. How does the tail behave during banked turns? Is it whipping? Making sounds like ratata? I need further info.

3) The 9257 isn't that fast... actually its a mini crippled version of a 9254. The protos is VERY sensitive to the tail linkages. I went through hell making my tail perfectly smooth. Is the tail fork square to the tail shaft? If you threaded it by hand without the tail rotor on, there is a good chance it isn't sitting square making the tail linkage work harder than needed.

4) If your tail "appears" not to be holding during stationary flips... its not the tail, its your swash setup. Swash interactions show up as the tail moving during flips while gyro issues appear as a not level disc after a flip... funny but true.

5)how much maximum collective and cyclic pitch? The protos is a beast but it has its limits. Mine starts bogging at 22 deg combined pitch. I only know because I wanted to try it. You don't use full collective (FFF) with full cyclic (flip)... it will stall the blades.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 1176 views POST REPLY
HelicopterMain Discussion › Can anyone answer this?
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 11  Topic Subscribe

Saturday, May 26 - 3:35 am - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online