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HelicopterMain Discussion › Runryder Court is now in Session
06-04-2009 01:19 PM  8 years agoPost 41
TRACERBOB

rrVeteran

Closer than you think

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When the "experienced pilot " spooled up the heli he took all responsibility in his hands..
Nuff said

Life is hard. Harder when your stupid

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06-04-2009 02:12 PM  8 years agoPost 42
Mike Fortin

rrElite Veteran

USA

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When the "experienced pilot " spooled up the heli he took all responsibility in his hands..
Not if there was a mechanical/electronic issue with the helicopter that was beyond the control of the pilot.

Have Rotors, Will Fly!

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06-04-2009 02:14 PM  8 years agoPost 43
A. Bundy

rrElite Veteran

Aurora,IL. 30W/SW of Chicago

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TO OP,no.NO.NO.The second he is in control,it's all on him.

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06-04-2009 02:21 PM  8 years agoPost 44
Hamo

rrVeteran

Ireland

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So the lesson to be learned is..........

Either don't fly anyone else's stuff or,
Have a witnessed agreement on responsibility should anything go wrong.

Any lawyers or law students here who could draft one and we use it and have it signed ?

Hamo

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06-04-2009 02:33 PM  8 years agoPost 45
Dino Spadaccini

rrElite Veteran

USA

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pay out
you have to submit to your own insurance first auto, home owners or personal when that runs out ama will kick in, ama is a secondary insurance and some thing to remember its not a millions dollars per person its for the year as a hole all ama members . I have first hand experience with the working of the ama insurance.

RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba

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06-04-2009 02:40 PM  8 years agoPost 46
lstmysock11

rrNovice

Middletown, CT

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I think he should pay to repair his own truck. He is the one who decided to fly the bird to close to his own truck. You should always leave plenty of room just incase something goes wrong so if you do crash you will not hit someones car, a person, animal or anything but the ground.

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06-04-2009 03:06 PM  8 years agoPost 47
mlucia

rrKey Veteran

Essex Jct., Vermont

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Has a $250 deductible (property damage only), which is the responsibility of the AMA member causing the accident.
Clearly the guy flying the heli is responsible. So he has to pay for his own truck

I find this just silly. Some people never cease to amaze me.
I would feel bad enough about crashing another persons machine even if it was mechanical failure or the builder/owners fault. Let alone then trying to make the person pay for my damaged vehicle!

What the hell is wrong with people and the way they think?

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06-04-2009 03:14 PM  8 years agoPost 48
Skarn

rrVeteran

Pasadena, MD

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Not if there was a mechanical/electronic issue with the helicopter that was beyond the control of the pilot.
I still say it's the experienced pilot's responsibility! As an experienced pilot, he should do a pre-flight checkout yes? Ensure all controls are working, etc...BEFORE takingn off. Then, spin it up and make sure everything seems ok....then, hover it very low to the ground again checking all controls....

I mean think about it....the experienced pilot KNEW it was a newby that set it up...what if the newby even stated "I don't know if this is correct, can you help me...". That's how most newbies I know ask for help!

Skarn

It's better to burn out than to fade away...

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06-04-2009 03:30 PM  8 years agoPost 49
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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Unclear
I know I posted previously, but I find the strong stance some people are indicating to be a little silly based on the facts that were presented and the facts that were left out. We are missing too many details to make solid judgement calls on this case:

New guy builds heli and goes to the field. He asks multiple people to check out his heli. Even so, something is overlooked. He asks this experienced pilot to test fly his heli because he is afraid of crashing is own new pride and joy. He tells the experienced pilot that everyone else has checked it out so a preflight has already been done twice. The newbie has a history of crashing a lot so the experienced pilot takes pity and decides to help. However, nobody knows that this new guy is actually crashing all the time because he has a cold solder joint in his radio and loses radio signal only intermittantly. The experienced pilot checked the controls on the ground, all is fine. Range check, all is fine. Hover, all is fine. At some point the cold joint seperates and he loses control and crashes. After the crash the radio looks fine again. He parked his car with all the other cars at the field, but he is on the end because he was the last one there. The helicopter was flying straight and level down the flight line in a perfectly safe fashion when the radio went out. The heli instantly went crazy and changed directions towards the flight line. The experienced pilot called out, "I lost it, heads up, I have no control!". Again, the radio shows control after the crash because the solder joint in the radio is now making contact.

How far away was the parked truck? We assume the experienced pilot was parked too close or choose to test fly too close. We must remember these helicopters can fly long distances and very quickly. Only assumption are made here.

Where was the helicopter when it lost flight? 10 feet from the pilot, 100 yards from the pilot? I have seen flying sites where cars are parked near the end of a flightline. Only a short time of control loss could send an aircraft into the parking lot.

We don't even know if a preflight was performed on the heli by the owner or the experienced pilot. We don't even know if another third party looked at the heli at some point. I know I have worked on someone's heli and fixed common newbie errors. Later they asked me to look at it again and I discovered another person tried to help and had changed some of my skillful work for the worse.

Did the owner ask the experienced pilot to fly the heli for him or did he offer a joy ride?

Did the owner say, please be careful and only do x,y,z?

Was the pilot hot dogging?

Did the pilot call out loud that something went wrong right before the crash? We have a policy that if something goes wrong in flight you yell out immediately what you think is wrong. For example, if I lose elevator control I yell, "I lost elevator". If a noise is heard I'd say, "I think something just fell off and hit the blades"...

Calling out is very helpful in determining fault. Once I was asked to take a guys new plane for a joy ride. Yep, he asked me to fly it. He had been enjoying the plane and showing it off all day. It was a funfly plane so a controlled flight and out of control flight could easily look the same. This little guy could tie itself up in a knot, so that is what we did when we flew it. First I lost throttle control. I called it out. Then I lost elevator. I called it out. Then I lost all control. I called it out. After the crash the battery was tested in found to be dead. The owner forgot to recharge after countless flights because he was so excited about the new plane.

Did anyone call out a failure or witness a failure in flight?

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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06-04-2009 03:37 PM  8 years agoPost 50
Mike Fortin

rrElite Veteran

USA

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Also, AMA is now primary insurance in the event that you need it.

Have Rotors, Will Fly!

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06-04-2009 03:44 PM  8 years agoPost 51
playfair

rrKey Veteran

Rochester, NY

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I'd pay for the dang truck just to see a video of the whole thing!

My view:
I don't care who asks who to fly. If something on your machine fails and it goes in, it's not my fault. If I crash it because I screwed up, then I pay for it.
If the other guy won't take my word for it that there was an "intermittant" failure (assuming it wasn't obvious) then you don't trust each other enough to even consider flying someone elses aircraft.


The sky is our canvas

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06-04-2009 03:45 PM  8 years agoPost 52
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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You fly ,You crash ,You pay .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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06-04-2009 03:45 PM  8 years agoPost 53
Aox

rrApprentice

Irvine, CA

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Dude. He flew a heli into his truck...

I don't care how screwed up the bird was...

He flew the heli...

into his truck...

-Aox

Synergy N9~/~Trex250-450-600N~/~Logo 500 3D~/~Rave 3D~/~Mini-Titan A109K2
AMA #902257 - OCMA

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06-04-2009 04:03 PM  8 years agoPost 54
allns47

rrKey Veteran

Richmond IN.

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Most likely u will not get a dollar from ama insurance,,,Its pretty much a joke..

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06-04-2009 04:31 PM  8 years agoPost 55
Hamo

rrVeteran

Ireland

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I've had enough of this post. Get the truck repaired, send me the bill, I'll pay.
Hamo

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06-04-2009 04:46 PM  8 years agoPost 56
axemanclint

rrKey Veteran

Cypress, Tx. USA

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No WAY!!! Just like the "experienced pilot" wouldn't be paying your friend if he had only crashed it into the Terra Firma. I say it's EVEN. Your friend is out money for a crashed heli that may or may not have been caused by pilot error and the SO-Called "experienced pilot" is out money for a damaged truck that a heli that may or may not have had radio problems caused. Both of them need to chalk it up to a bad day and move on.

My $0.02

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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06-04-2009 04:48 PM  8 years agoPost 57
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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Where is the evidence that he "flew" the heli into his truck? It has not been verified if the heli or electronics had a failure. There is still the possibility that the heli flew itself into the truck and the pilot was doing everything possible to prevent that from happening.

Again, not enough details, and definately no balance of information from both parties from their perspective.

Tyler

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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06-04-2009 05:01 PM  8 years agoPost 58
Quandumphone

rrApprentice

Yuma, AZ

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Apparently, Tyler was the "experienced pilot".

hehe, jk.

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06-04-2009 05:08 PM  8 years agoPost 59
gian

rrVeteran

AZ

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Christ- No wonder lawyers are rich.

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06-04-2009 05:42 PM  8 years agoPost 60
A. Bundy

rrElite Veteran

Aurora,IL. 30W/SW of Chicago

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You are responsible to be aware of what you are flying.Pilot in command sole responsible party.

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