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Scorpion Electric Components
› Why is 55-10-32 a good match with Scorpion HK-4025-740
06-03-2009 09:00 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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I'm preparing for my first E-Heli and I'm reading about ESC's and motors. I see the Scorpion HK-4025-740KV being used a lot with the Kontronic Jazz 55-10-32. I'm trying to find out if they are a good match but I must be missing a piece of the puzzle.

The Jazz ESC is rated 55A Continuous and 65A max (15 seconds)
The Scorpion motor is rated as 70A max continuous.

I would think that the ESC should have the highest amp. rating in order to survive so why is this still a good match?

The only reason I can think of is that the Scorpion in a real world setup (like Henseleit 3DMP-E) with 10S doesn't come near the 70A.

But without being able to measure (like when deciding what to buy) what specs and / or calculations should be used/done to determine that this is indeed a good combo?

Help or links on the subject are greatly appreciated.

Kontronic Jazz 55-10-32 specs
Scorpion HK-4025-740 specs

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06-03-2009 09:23 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Jag72

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South of Boston

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Jazz 55
The Jazz 55's are capable of Handling a LOT more than the 55amps ....they arewell used because the governors areawesome and they just "WORK" .....especially on 10s setups...where the amp draw is usually lower anyways...but I think you'll find the jazz is capable of 100+amp spikes

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06-06-2009 01:44 PM  8 years agoPost 3
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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You won't be drawing 70 amps continuous from the motor, not if you want your batteries to survive. Most larger E-helis (with some exceptions) draw around the 30-40 amp continuous range with spikes in the 70-100 amp range.
The Jazz has one of the best governors and WILL handle just about anything using up to 10S.

If you skip me I can't play!

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07-05-2009 07:21 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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I've now bought the helicopter with the Scorpion HK4025-740 and the Jazz ESC 55-10-32 and I've flown it 5 times and 4 out of five times the Jazz went into the protection mode where the RPM goes to 0 in 30 seconds. This happens in 2 cases, 1: low battery and 2: too hot. And since the battery is OK before and after the 2 minutes I got before shutdown I assume it is the thermal protection. I don't yet have a watt meter.

This is on a 3DMPe. I had my doubts about this combo before buying but now after flying it I'm not at all convinced the Jazz is a good match for the scorpion. Specs say the ESC may be overloaded and it does seem to do that in the real world.

Any thoughts on what else may be going on? I haven't even flown it really hard.

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07-06-2009 03:11 AM  8 years agoPost 5
helicraze

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Victoria - Australia

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Did you put a heatsink on it? You need to do this or you will have problems

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07-06-2009 07:35 AM  8 years agoPost 6
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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No I didn't. Is it possible to put a heatsink on a Jazz? It is wrapped in shrink wrap so no metal to put the heatsink on like with the Jive.

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07-06-2009 12:32 PM  8 years agoPost 7
helicraze

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Victoria - Australia

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Yes, do a search and you will find some pics.

You need to cut away one side of the heatshrink (can't remember which side) there is a plate and you need to stick a heatsink on with thermal adhesive. That will solve you problems!

Its very common, most jazz owners do this.

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07-06-2009 02:38 PM  8 years agoPost 8
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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First off, what's your gearing?

We know you're running 10S and a Jazz, but what are you trying to run for gearing?

If you skip me I can't play!

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07-06-2009 08:17 PM  8 years agoPost 9
NOLONGERFLYING

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Scottsdale, AZ

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never had a problem with a tango and the jazz esc on 10s and never used a heat sink. As others mentioned the heat sink will help, but could be gearing

Team MyColdHardCash

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07-07-2009 07:14 AM  8 years agoPost 10
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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Thanks for the replies guys.
I'm using a 12T pinion and a 132T main gear so I have a 1:11 reduction.

From what I read I should have either 11T or 12T so I should be close.

The specs for the Tango motor say that max Amp is much lower than for the Scorpion, I believe it was about 45A (versus 70A for the Scorpion),

The Tango is also the recommended motor for this bird but I bought it used and it had the Scorpion on it.

Max head speed is about 2230 (0 pitch on the ground). I fly with about 2000.

@helicraze
Thanks for the hint. I'll be looking into this. I hadn't given this any thought because I didn't think it was possible.

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07-09-2009 07:19 AM  8 years agoPost 11
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Heatsink onto the thermal plate side, easy peasy..."heatsink" helps not just abit it helps "alot", do trust in those that are telling you it helps.

Some examples of Jazzes with heatsinks...

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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09-05-2009 08:52 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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I was finally able to test the combination of the Jazz with the Scorpion with an EagleTree logger and I found that the current was way too high. When just leaving the ground carefully, one flyby and a landing so no acrobatics or high amp moves I had a max Ampere reading of 70A.

It became much worse when running on the ground with full negative pitch (-10). I know this loads the system a lot but so do acrobatics. The current went up immediately to 116A !!! and that caused a thermal shutdown within 10 seconds. (Maybe I shouldn't do this with an e-bird )

What is wrong with my setup that I get these very high currents? Will changing the gear ratio from 1:11 to 1:12 help? I'm afraid that the change is too little to help much.

I still have doubts that the scorpion 4025-740 and the Jazz 55-10-32 are a good match.

By the way I did test this with RPM of about 2000-2100 and a 10S pack.

P.S. I did follow advice and mounted a heatsink. But one can't blame the Jazz for wanting to shutdown at 90 degrees C while running more than twice the rated current.

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09-05-2009 09:24 PM  8 years agoPost 13
MrMel

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Gotland

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Heatsink will do wonder, but I doubt it will ever work on the ground, full negative with no airflow

Last year we where about 5-6 pilots flying 3DX with the Jazz, probably peaking >125 amps quite alot, we had ONE spooldown, this was in the middle of the summer, and he probably over-current it badly

So my guess is, put on a heatink and it will work quite well.

and, oh, yes, NEVER look at "ratings" for a motor, there is no right or wrong, its just what the specific manufacturer has given its rating, parameter for the rating is unknown to you.

So one could say "it should withstand this current 30 seconds and dont reach xxx degrees", where as next might say "it should withstand it 30 seconds and dont start to smoke.. too much"

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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09-05-2009 09:39 PM  8 years agoPost 14
Colibri

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The Netherlands

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and dont start to smoke.. too much"

From the Amp graph I can see that the flyby part is around 20A-25A but the takeoff and gaining height is in the 50A-60A range with a peak to 75A. The landing ends with a 110A spike which is probably the neg-pitch on the ground situation.

I was very very careful with the pitch during takeoff. It all seems that as soon as real load is applied the current goes way up.

I can not fly this bird in a normal fashion without it ending in a spool down.

I'm considering upgrading to a Jive 80+ HV but this is a rather costly upgrade.

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09-05-2009 09:43 PM  8 years agoPost 15
MrMel

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Gotland

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I thermalled my Jive 80 wihtout heatsink on same machine that worked with Jazz 55 with heatsink, so you never know

I now run Jive 80 with heatsink

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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› Why is 55-10-32 a good match with Scorpion HK-4025-740
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