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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › Senate reviews closing of GM, Chrysler dealerships
06-03-2009 03:59 PM  8 years agoPost 1
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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This just kills me.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_auto_dealers
Lawmakers contend the dealership closings will put thousands of people out of work and offer few savings to GM or Chrysler, which have received billions in federal aid as they attempt to restructure and return to profitability....

"The egregious time frame and terms of these franchise terminations seem unprecedented to me," wrote Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.,
And what exactly did lawmakers think is the first step in trying to cut down expenses in a bloated company was??????

Didn't "lawmakers" have to approve the reorg plans before they gave away tax payer money?

This just shows that these "lawmaker" idiots don't have the first clue how to run a business and don't seem to bother to read the things they approve.

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06-03-2009 08:12 PM  8 years agoPost 2
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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The franchise owners are loosing their shirts because of the closures. I agree that they need to be closed down but they need to be compensated somehow for their inventory and franchising costs.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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06-03-2009 08:52 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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The franchise owners are loosing their shirts because of the closures. I agree that they need to be closed down but they need to be compensated somehow for their inventory and franchising costs.
Oh really. At who's expense? Ours? Again? Those dealer franchises had to know they were selling cars for failing companies. What do they expect? What do their contracts say?

This whole thing is going to be a mess.

Now we have companies that are owned by the tax payers to the tune of billions upon billions of dollars with lobbyists still in Washington representing them giving campaign donations to the Dems. Those dollars come from the companies that are majority owned by the government. Our money.

Nice, real nice.

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06-03-2009 09:16 PM  8 years agoPost 4
homer

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Gainesville - Florida

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Dennis

For the first time I have to disagree with you.

Alot of these dealers have had thier dealerships for 30 - 40 years. They bought their franchise's and paid for them, not to mention the buildings, inventory etc.

If they loose the franchise due to the automakers bad handling as they are doing now then I think they need to be compensated somehow. The automakers should have to take back the inventory and pay any interest the dealers paid on these cars and inventory. They should also be paid something so they can at least get some help getting a franchise with another automaker. Maybe thru the bankrupcy any portion's sold to another company use that money to pay for it.

But I can see the dealers side of this also. It would be like you buying a Subway franchise and after 10 to 15 years Subway decides they are droping you and you are left out in the cold with just a building.

Like you I am tired paying for all this BS. Now that we own 60% of Goverment Motors my question would be who get's any future profits? I am assuming they make a profit of course. I'll bet any money made will be spent by the goverment for their little projects.

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06-03-2009 09:30 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Dennis

For the first time I have to disagree with you.

Alot of these dealers have had thier dealerships for 30 - 40 years. They bought their franchise's and paid for them, not to mention the buildings, inventory etc.
Well, you know. I feel for those those dealers. There is lots more folks that are going to be in the unemployment lines with not many hiring right now. A continuing and sad situation. No doubt about it.

From what I understand, their cars are getting moved to dealers that are staying open. I can't imagine they are not being compensated for them. I don't think they could just take those cars that have already been purchased by those dealers..
Like you I am tired paying for all this BS. Now that we own 60% of Goverment Motors my question would be who get's any future profits? I am assuming they make a profit of course. I'll bet any money made will be spent by the goverment for their little projects.
They won't be making any profits. Certainly not based on history. Look at the Railroads and the Post Office.

GM alone has about 82 billion in assets with something like 170 billion in debts right now. Thats a lot of losses to make up for. Thats before the costs of retooling to build whatever cars Obama wants them to build. PROFITS ????? Ain't going to happen.

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06-03-2009 09:40 PM  8 years agoPost 6
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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SSN Pru
I agree that they need to be closed down but they need to be compensated somehow for their inventory and franchising costs.
My company just got rid of my job.... Am I owed compensation? Why would a business owner be entitled to a bailout?


homer
If they loose the franchise due to the automakers bad handling as they are doing now then I think they need to be compensated somehow.
If I lose my job due to my company's bad choices... What kind of compensation am I entitled to?

Both of you are encouraging the Dem platform of entitlements here. People open a business to make money... the risks should be theirs as should the profits.

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06-03-2009 10:27 PM  8 years agoPost 7
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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What do their contracts say?
Contracts don't mean much in a Bankruptcy.

Ronhill,

That has to be one of the most idiotic statement you've made here on RR.

You didn't PAY to have your job. You were given the oppurtunity to perform it with your former company. The franchise owners PAID big time money to the automakers for the right to sell that brand's cars...
If I lose my job due to my company's bad choices... What kind of compensation am I entitled to?
RonHill,

Ever hear of a franchise?
Franchising refers to the methods of practicing and using another person's business philosophy. The franchisor grants the independent operator the right to distribute its products, techniques, and trademarks for a percentage of gross monthly sales and a royalty fee. Various tangibles and intangibles such as national or international advertising, training, and other support services are commonly made available by the franchisor. Agreements typically last from five to thirty years, with premature cancellations or terminations of most contracts bearing serious consequences for franchisees.
You've stuck your foot in your mouth...
Both of you are encouraging the Dem platform of entitlements here. People open a business to make money... the risks should be theirs as should the profits.
You show me where I encouraged anything of the sort! Sometimes you make really ignorant statements.

I am encrouraging the just compensation of thousands of franchise owners who stand to lose a LOT and who are also big EMPLOYERS...

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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06-03-2009 10:52 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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I am encrouraging the just compensation of thousands of franchise owners who stand to lose a LOT and who are also big EMPLOYERS...
But, who is going to compensate them? The tax payer?

What does their contracts with GM & Chrysler say about that?

Makes no sense.

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06-03-2009 11:02 PM  8 years agoPost 9
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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SSN Pru
You didn't PAY to have your job.
I do pay... with my time.

Just admit you are fine with entitlements and those payments coming from you and I.
The franchise owners PAID big time money to the automakers for the right to sell that brand's cars...
And they were rewarded with profits.
Ever hear of a franchise?
Of course... Ever hear of a business?
A business (also called a firm or an enterprise) is a legally recognized organization designed to provide goods and/or services to consumers.[1] Businesses are predominant in capitalist economies, most being privately owned and formed to earn profit that will increase the wealth of its owners and grow the business itself. The owners and operators of a business have as one of their main objectives the receipt or generation of a financial return in exchange for work and acceptance of risk. Notable exceptions include cooperative businesses and state-owned enterprises. Socialist systems involve either government agencies, public, or worker ownership of most sizable businesses.
These franchise owners started a business.... You want to put us all on the hook for their losses... That sounds like a Democrat to me.
You've stuck your foot in your mouth...
No, you have just come out as a closet Democrat.

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06-04-2009 12:08 PM  8 years agoPost 10
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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Ronhill,

I usually agree with what you say here. I don't agree with you calling me a Democrat. I am nothing of the sort and I take that as a personal insult.
Just admit you are fine with entitlements and those payments coming from you and I.
I will not because I am absolutely against entitlement. There's a difference between giving something to someone for free (entitlement) and compensating someone for what they've paid for. I would treat franchise owners as creditors to GM or Chrysler.

You insistence on comparing the purchasing of a franchise with your job is absolutely laughable. Like I said, you didn't pay your former employer for the right to perform your job and make money doing it. You were GIVEN the oppurtunity free of charge and then compensated for your time. There is a difference whether you can see it or not.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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06-04-2009 12:58 PM  8 years agoPost 11
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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Here's what I don't understand. The Dealerships are where the cars are sold. They are not owned by the auto manufacturers. They are not an expense to the auto manufactures, or an asset owned by them. Without them, there is nowhere to sell their vehicles. How can the manufacturers tell them to shut down? And, why do they think that will save them money?

These dealerships purchase their inventories from the manufacturers, and then sell the cars. The manufacturer gets paid when they order the cars, not when they sell them. I fail to see how closing dealerships will save them money. Especially considering that the manufacturer financed a lot of those vehicles and is accepting payments on them from the dealerships.

It seems to me, that they are shooting themselves in the foot by closing the dealerships.

If I were a dealership owner, I would be demanding that they take their inventory back and return my money. I would also be talking with Ford, Toyota and Volkswagen to try and franchise with one or all of them. Screw GM and Chrysler, I'll never buy a new vehicle from either one of them.

It's a shame too. I was really looking forward to a Dodge Challenger.

On another note, Ron, you're acting like a child. For you to compare your meager JOB to a franchise, or any business for that matter, is just completely insulting.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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06-04-2009 01:30 PM  8 years agoPost 12
homer

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Gainesville - Florida

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Ron

Sorry I have to disagree with you here. The dealers paid big bucks for the franchise. And to just tell them after they invested alot of money they are loosing all of it thru no fault of thier own is crap. As far as you being let go, you have been paid for you time so its not the same.

As far as "encouraging the Dem platform" your off on this. It's is the right thing to do in my opinion. And I am not a democrat either and never will be. I don't go along with their lie's and half as* tactics. I'm a lifelong republican and sad to say they have lost their way.

I read alot of your posts that you put up and probably 99.5% of the time I agree with you and what you are saying but this is in that ,5% of the time I have to respectably disagree with you.

I'm not saying bail them out but if GM sell of the hummer, saturn and pontiac brand to someone, then use that money to reimburse them.

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06-04-2009 02:48 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Havoc

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Ky.

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The dealers paid big bucks for the franchise. And to just tell them after they invested alot of money they are loosing all of it thru no fault of thier own is crap
No, its the real world. This is why business owners and "the rich" don't like to be demonized by idiot politicians playing class warfare. These guys take these risks which result in jobs. They do it for the high reward but every business owner risks loosing it all for any number of reasons. That's why when the promise of a high reward is diminished through high taxes and other such burdens, less of it is pursued. I don't really get the whole dealership closing strategy either but GM is gone anyway. This is all an expensive show. It's like Weekend at Bernie's and politicians are moving the arms of the dead guy so we keep handing over our money.

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06-04-2009 02:50 PM  8 years agoPost 14
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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How can the manufacturers tell them to shut down? And, why do they think that will save them money?
1stplace,

They aren't telling them to close their doors, they are telling them they are no longer going to be recognized as legitimate sellers of vehicles. The vehicles being sold by non-legit dealers means the vehicles can't be sold as BRAND NEW. They would technically be used. This means no manufacturer backed warranty allowed!

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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06-04-2009 03:17 PM  8 years agoPost 15
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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They aren't telling them to close their doors, they are telling them they are no longer going to be recognized as legitimate sellers of vehicles.
Right, they aren't telling them to close their doors. They are no longer authorized service centers either. That makes their parts inventories and warranties worth nearly nothing, along with the inventory of new cars.
The vehicles being sold by non-legit dealers means the vehicles can't be sold as BRAND NEW. They would technically be used. This means no manufacturer backed warranty allowed!
Isn't that the same thing as shutting them down? They are being forced to sell off there inventory at a loss. Then they have to reorganize as a new franchise, or become a used car dealer.

There is simply no way these dealerships can go through this without closing their doors until they have a new plan, new equipment, new inventories, ect. It is going to be extremely costly for the dealerships. They will have to lay off their employees while they reorganize. If they can't come up with the money to execute their new plans, then they have, in essence, been forced to close their doors because of GM's, Chrysler's, and Obama's task forces decisions. The dealerships will loose millions of dollars.

To top all that off, people aren't buying new cars right now. As the economy weakens, it is going to be even more difficult to keep any car dealership open!

Obama has already said, "we are out of money". They are not going to bail anyone else out. With the banks not able to loan money, the collapse of the auto industry, small and medium size businesses going out of business at an extraordinary pace, our nations economy is only a couple of natural disasters away from complete financial collapse.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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06-04-2009 03:25 PM  8 years agoPost 16
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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our country, and the world in fact, needs to go through a lot of pain before we feel better. It's been that way since the beginning. All of the bailouts have only delayed the inevitable.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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06-04-2009 03:54 PM  8 years agoPost 17
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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Sad but true. Being in general aviation, I can tell you, people are not spending money on their planes, or flying much. My shop is DEAD, and the phone isn't exactly ringing off the hook. Our flight school lost a contract with the UAE, which was the only thing that kept us going last year. This is the busiest privately owned airport in Ohio, we had over 6500 departures in 2007. So far this year, it's less than 1000.

There were 3 maintenance shops on the airport in 2007. Mine is the lone survivor, one other is part of the flight school, and primarily maintaining their planes. They have very few customers, and certainly not enough to survive on. If the airport doesn't survive, than my shop doesn't have a chance in heck either.

I might just have to go back to school and milk the system until the economy rebounds.

Or, start working on cars. Blech!

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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06-04-2009 05:13 PM  8 years agoPost 18
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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SSN Pru
I am nothing of the sort and I take that as a personal insult.
You are encouraging the Govt to compensate, from my wallet, a business owner.... What would you define that as?
I would treat franchise owners as creditors to GM or Chrysler.
And does that include getting paid from the Govt with tax payer dollars?
You insistence on comparing the purchasing of a franchise with your job is absolutely laughable
And you insisting that my tax dollars go to bail out yet another privately owned business is just as laughable.

The franchise owners paid those fees to make money.... They should get the profits from that risk and face the dangers without a free ticket to dig into my checkbook.
our country, and the world in fact, needs to go through a lot of pain before we feel better. It's been that way since the beginning. All of the bailouts have only delayed the inevitable.
And yet here you are seeming to encourage more bailouts?!?!?!!??

1stPlace
On another note, Ron, you're acting like a child.
And you are acting that way with that comment. What, you can't discuss a topic without lame insults? Can't disagree with someone with out resorting to childish antics?

homer
Sorry I have to disagree with you here. The dealers paid big bucks for the franchise. And to just tell them after they invested alot of money they are loosing all of it thru no fault of thier own is crap. As far as you being let go, you have been paid for you time so its not the same.
And it was not really intended to be the same... It was to ask when the entitlements stop. But why should a franchise be treated any differently that a normal business? Why should they be entitled to dig into taxpayer money since their business plan failed?

They are out a lot of money.... But they also made a lot of money. I don't know too many car dealership owners that are broke.

Why should you and I pay them for the loss of their business?
I'm not saying bail them out but if GM sell of the hummer, saturn and pontiac brand to someone, then use that money to reimburse them.
How about paying back the taxpayers instead?

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06-04-2009 06:56 PM  8 years agoPost 19
1stPlace

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Ohio USA

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And you are acting that way with that comment.
No, I'm acting like a snooty business owner.
What, you can't discuss a topic without lame insults?
Sure I can. If you hadn't thrown insults at SSN Pru, I wouldn't have scolded you like a child. You read way too much into SSN Pru's posts and insulted him because of your own misconceptions about his posts.
Can't disagree with someone with out resorting to childish antics?

Just because we disagree with the bankruptcy structuring, does not mean that we think the tax payers should bail out the dealerships too. Neither Pru, or me were ever in favor of the bailouts in the first place. Despite our objections, the banks were already bailed out. Now they are getting paid again by GM's bailout and bankruptcy, while the little guys, the dealerships and shareholders loose everything they invested into the company.

In light of the bailout money that has been doled out, GM's bankruptcy should not have been structured in a manner that pays GM's creditors two or three times over (with tax payers money), while leaving their dealers empty handed. The money that will be brought in from the bankruptcy should be used to buy back dealers inventories by the reorganized company. Then, dissolve the franchise. That would have bought dealerships the time to partner with different manufacturers, retain cash flow, and remain open for business.

Under the current bankruptcy, The country will lose tens of thousands more jobs because of the back room deals from politicians, lobbyists and a few ultra wealthy men, on the backs of the dealers, employees and taxpayers.

Diejenigen, die nicht lernen aus den Fehlern der Vergangenheit bestimmt sind, zu wiederholen.

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06-04-2009 10:16 PM  8 years agoPost 20
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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There's no easy way to compensate the dealers for their franchises without it seeming like a bailout. It's unfortunate because in history, the US Government has rarely, if ever, provided the funding to a business to see it through a bankruptcy. Let me ask you this, had a private investor lent the money to GM, would you still be against compensating the dealerships?

Also, you are acting as if the Government SOLELY owns GM. The US Government does not so it would be hard for you to argue that the dealerships would be bailed out by tax payer money.

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › Senate reviews closing of GM, Chrysler dealerships
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