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HelicopterMain Discussion › Heli rolling left on loops
06-02-2009 06:56 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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I have an issue with it feels like several of my helicopters. I'm wondering what to look for in my helicopter, Radio setup or just me.

When I do a loop, the back half, I have to add right roll to correct the helicopter rolling left on me.

It seems to mostly happen when I try to do a bigger loop where I"m hanging w/ some negative/neutral at the top.

Today flying buddy watched my hands during the loop to see what I was doing. He said he did not see me add in ANY left roll w/ my hands during the loop and only saw me adding right roll correction at the back half. When I did a tigher loop with very little neutral at the top, he saw little correction.

One flight w/ my 450 I added 10% right roll with back elevator and it helped a little but I'm not so sure that's the issue or not. I'm also thinking if my tail is kicking out at the top and maybe that a slight spin is causeing me to come out of the loop facing off to the side causing the need to change the roll.

I took some video of some straight loops as well as loops w/ piros at the top and will try to youtube it but it looks like my hatcam was pointed down and I missed half of the loop tops.

What should I look for?

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06-02-2009 08:19 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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And this only happens in the loop you talked about, or is the roll occouring during any other manuvers as well? Banking turns, large stall turns, ect?

"I just don't Listen" "

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06-02-2009 09:03 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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I didn't notice anything in a standing flip but I only did a couple before the flight today. I still have the flybar weights all the way out on this 450 so the roll rates are not that great.

I'll add that onto my list of things to check into on my next flights.

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06-02-2009 09:36 PM  8 years agoPost 4
RAK402

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Alhambra, CA

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Melnic,

What helicopter and what radio?

Team KBDD/Compass Team Manger/Experience RC/Team JR Americas/WR Field Rep

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06-02-2009 09:39 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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EXI 450 AR6100 Rx
Thunder Tiger Raptor e550 AR7000Rx
Spektrum DX7 Tx

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06-02-2009 09:40 PM  8 years agoPost 6
RappyTappy

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Traveling the USA

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You don't have to give any aileron to have corkscrew loops. If the tail is not straight in line with the loop and you give no corrections if you notice it drifting, then the loop will corkscrew. It seems sometimes when guys fly looking at the side doing 3D(tic tocs rainbows ect), their heli looks straight from their vantage point, but when you look from a different angle it is either skewed towards or away from the pilot and not actually really straight.

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06-02-2009 09:40 PM  8 years agoPost 7
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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As Flying Brian asks, and also what does it do in fff?

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06-02-2009 09:42 PM  8 years agoPost 8
helinelly

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st.helens england

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dumb thumbs
consentrate more on your sticks.................
also look to see if your trims are set right............
check swash for level...................
check swash travel +60%
+60% +60% depends on your radio
......................................................................
also check the pitch on both blades as one could be out causing travel.....................................
hope this helps regards helinelly

if it broken.....glue the bast#$d...keep flying..i tell the wife my crashes cost £20! works for me

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06-02-2009 10:07 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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Vidoes are uploaded.
They are not that great but they are all I have.
They are still processing as I post this but will be available in HD after that processing is complete.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjTAHEL6a-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q97gS1Dw2Gw

I had someone look at my fingers during flight. He only saw my corrections at the back half of the flight in the roll axis.

I typically try to trim the tail and heli but I don't always trim it perfectly level. On my last e550 flight, we looked at the trim and I was hands off for 10-20 seconds.

I typically don't get critical of my tail drift and if I have 45 degrees of rotation in 20 seconds, I'm happy. I can see how some CW rotation at the top of the loop could cause what I'm seeing.

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06-02-2009 10:21 PM  8 years agoPost 10
HydroJoe

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SF,CA

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I typically don't get critical of my tail drift and if I have 45 degrees of rotation in 20 seconds, I'm happy. I can see how some CW rotation at the top of the loop could cause what I'm seeing.
I would bet this has something to do with it. In addition, your tail drifting might mean it's not setup correct....When you load up the head it may not be holding the tail as well as it could. What kind of gyro? I would consider that amount of drift alot. I would sort that out before anything.

T-Rex 450 SE V2 , T-Rex 600 NSP, Stryker F27 C....Yea, it's a plank.

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06-02-2009 10:36 PM  8 years agoPost 11
kc8qpu

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sc

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don't forget that with the little 450 if you suck the head speed down at all you will loose a lot of tail authority. I hate my little 450 for that reason.

Carpe Diem!!!

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06-03-2009 12:49 AM  8 years agoPost 12
RAK402

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Alhambra, CA

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Make sure the RPM is up (around 3K) as others have mentioned.

Make sure the gyro is really holding the tail properly (again, as others have mentioned). An errant tail will allow it to foul up a loop.

Make sure that the swashplate is remaining level throughout the collective travel-if not, adjust individual servo throws (endpoints) until it stays level.

You always have to fly the machine through a loop, to get a nice round, smooth loop, but you should not have to fight it to get it to track through it properly.

Team KBDD/Compass Team Manger/Experience RC/Team JR Americas/WR Field Rep

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06-03-2009 12:54 AM  8 years agoPost 13
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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Yeah CCPM interaction is my guess. If you're able to hover upside down, try doing that, and punching out inverted. Does the heli roll one way or the other? If so change endpoints to compensate, or make a pitch -> aileron mix.

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06-03-2009 01:41 AM  8 years agoPost 14
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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I had just leveled the swash this sunday on the EXI. The e550 I dno't have a leveling tool for.
exi has a hyperion digital w/ a Telebee gyro that has the DS turned on.
e550 has hyperion digital tail servo and a logitec 2100T on it.
I think both hold pretty well on punch outs but I think the idea of looping and getting someone to look at the tail closely is a good idea.

I'll have to try an inverted punch out too.
Just before this flight I did a short inverted hover and it seemed to want to roll RIGHT on me (barely though) which is the opposite of what would cause what I'm seeing.

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking it might be the tail rotating right on me at the top of the loop.

Lots to think about and plenty to invetigate. thx.
I'll see if I can get someone else to film the helicopter better so I can get you guys a closer look.

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06-03-2009 02:35 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville, Ohio

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Sorry, but I scrolled down without reading, so if this was mentioned, excuse me!

Upon both take off's in your vids, your nose swung to the right, if I remember correctly. Is that you doing this, or just your set up?

"I just don't Listen" "

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06-03-2009 03:10 AM  8 years agoPost 16
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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That's the gyro out of trim. It's a telebee so it does not automatically center itself on power up like say a GY401 does.
I have to trim it out each flight just about. Well that's what I've experianced. After looking at the video, the first minute is me trimming out the tail and cyclic so I'd have to say the helicopter was "reasonably" trimmed out.

I hope to fly again tomorrow at lunch weather permitting.
I'll make sure my tail is flying straight before doing the loops.
I'll also see if I can walk out on the field and do a loop out in front of me while flying away from me. I should be able to see quite well what the tail is doing at the top better. I'll also inverted hover it and inverted punch outs and see what the tail is doing.

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08-28-2009 06:25 PM  8 years agoPost 17
Melnic

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Columbia, MD,USA

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An update on my silly little issue.
My problem was that after 8 years of vacation from flying, I pretty much forgot how to properly loop.
My problem was that I was dropping off the collective WAY too soon and throwing in WAY too much negative at the top trying to make a larger loop than necessary. The tail was kicking out some and maybe something else.

All of my helis are doing loops nice and straight now as I'm keeping on the collective longer and pulling down to no more than 0 pitch at the top.

My epiphany was when I was telling a noob at the field how do do a loop and I was actually thinking about it and then realized the mistakes I was making.

So the correct answer was Dumb Thumbs.

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08-28-2009 09:38 PM  8 years agoPost 18
Heli_KV

rrKey Veteran

Ottawa, Canada

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I had similar story, searching for all possible problems, including CCPM interaction and such. Well, even changed servo. Result was - my thumbs. A bit of unnoticebale by eye movement, screwed up flips.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Heli rolling left on loops
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