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Miniature Aircraft Whiplash & Furion 6
› Help understanding throttle curve and Lipo batreries for Furion 450
06-01-2009 11:11 PM  8 years agoPost 1
lejon

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Las Vegas, Nevada

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I am new to electrics and have set up a Furion with the normal mode curve and pitch to give a fairly consistent 2100 rpm on the head.

A few questions:

1. I have heard many say that they have a flat 100 or 100 85 100 idle up curve. Am I correct in assuming that this curve is only for 3D? It seems that at those setting the head cranks really high.

2. Will reducing the throttle curve to say 85 instead of 100 increase run times?

3. I have a 2120 mah battery and through testing have calculated that the battery will expend 80% of its rated power during a 9 minute flight. What I have noticed is that the voltage after the 9 minute run is around 11.3 or 11.4. I keep hearing that you don't want to go below 10volts ideal or 9 absolute. Is a 9 minute run with ending voltage 11.4 wasting or not using the available power or is the 1680 mah used about right?

Thanks in advance
Lejon

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06-02-2009 02:27 AM  8 years agoPost 2
jason46

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MI

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I'm not a 3D pilot (yet) but I've found using a curve 100-85-100 to be erratic with the throttle varying so much with the pitch. A flat line seems to make for smoother flight. I would recommend a flat line with an esc that has a governor mode.

Yes, lowering the throttle extends flight time.

I fly generally until I hit the lipo cut-off or I feel a reduction in power, I believe lipos can be run down safely to 3volts per cell. When you charge the lipo does it take around 2100mah?

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06-02-2009 05:35 AM  8 years agoPost 3
lejon

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Las Vegas, Nevada

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80%
I have been flying for about 9 minutes and put back 1600 mah each time. That calcuates to 80% of the 2170 (errored before with 2120).

I guess from what you are saying the governer actually takes over and controls the motor to keep a constant head speed

Thanks

Lejon

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06-02-2009 06:07 AM  8 years agoPost 4
what_the_helli

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cookeville, tn USA

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I have been flying for about 9 minutes and put back 1600 mah each time. That calcuates to 80% of the 2170 (errored before with 2120).
your in the right spot.
I fly generally until I hit the lipo cut-off or I feel a reduction in power, I believe lipos can be run down safely to 3volts per cell.
Not the best idea...
yes you can get the lipo down to 3v per cell. But we use 80% to give a margin of safety/error. What happens is the voltage begins to drop fast, and as it does the battery starts heating up. Heat is the lipo killer!

I put the fun in dysFUNctional :)
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06-02-2009 06:13 AM  8 years agoPost 5
jphilli

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Atlanta, Ga.

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When you calculate flight times, calculate based on the 80% of capacity rule. Remember as a Lipo ages it will loose capacity so you'll have to shorten flights a bit for the older packs.

DO NOT fly until the battery hits a certain voltage. The voltage is determined by not only the charge of the pack, but also the internal resistance! A brand new pack might show 3.8 nominal volts per cell after a flight and an older pack that's had the same capacity taken from it can show 3.5 volts per cell. Also a brand new 40C pack will show a different voltage under load at a given charge than a 20C pack with the same load and charge (because they have a different internal resistance). Going by voltage is very misleading and is not the best way.

My recommendation is to fly out 75-80% of the rated capacity and shorten it if you notice the voltage getting too low.

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06-02-2009 06:19 AM  8 years agoPost 6
lejon

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Las Vegas, Nevada

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Thanks,
JPHilli, I will keep on running it down to the 80%. It was just after taking out 80% the voltage was still 11.4 and to the inexperienced that looks like there is still a considerable amount of punch left at 80%.

Is anyone using the Zippy Lipos?

Lejon

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06-02-2009 03:33 PM  8 years agoPost 7
jason46

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MI

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I'm a huge fan of 2500mah Multiplex packs. I forget where the cut-off is set in the phoenix, but they barely get luke warm, so I'm not worried. I put 2200mah back on the average so I'm not far from the 80% capacity suggestion, and the initial voltage is around 11.0V.

I found zippy packs to be extremely under-powered compared to SMC and the Multiplex packs. If all you do is hover in one spot Zippys are a good cost saver. SMC has a new line of packs coming out (c-max I believe) that look very exciting.

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06-02-2009 03:38 PM  8 years agoPost 8
jason46

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MI

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jphilli

What is the temperature threshold for lipos?

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06-02-2009 03:52 PM  8 years agoPost 9
lejon

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Las Vegas, Nevada

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80%
Ok I thought I was following but now I am not so sure.

When you say 80% are you talking about the rated capacity? If so then wouldn't 80% of 2500 be 2000?

Putting back 2200 would come to 88%. What am I missing?

lejon

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06-02-2009 05:55 PM  8 years agoPost 10
jason46

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MI

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They are saying a rule of thumb is to use 80% of the rated capacity. So if I put 2200mah back into a 2500 battery I'm breaking that rule. I should then adjust the timer on my radio accordingly.

I just charged a multiplex pack and it took 2200mah from 11.5V.

For future reference I would like to know what a safe temp is for Lipos.

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06-02-2009 07:56 PM  8 years agoPost 11
lejon

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Las Vegas, Nevada

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80% rule
Jason 46 I was thinking that perhaps you came to the 2200 mah value by calculating off of something other than the rated capacity. Then it would seem that 80% is a recommended ballpark number.

Since I don't have any experience to support something different I will stick with the 80% as a rule.

Leon

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06-05-2009 10:41 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Danny Calderone

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South Jersey

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I found zippy packs to be extremely under-powered compared to SMC and the Multiplex packs. If all you do is hover in one spot Zippys are a good cost saver.
There is several "grades" of Zippy packs available. The 30c and 30-40c 2100mah 11.1 packs out perform everything I have flown in that range for $25-$37 a piece. I am very impressed with them over my thunder power extreme V2's and pro-lites.

HobbyKing has a good chart on their site to explain the difference in cell quality between the standard, R and H designations

The Zippy packs really surprised me, I usually stick to the big name brand packs, but I flew a buddy of mines and had to order some for myself.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/...40C_Lipoly_Pack

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06-05-2009 10:47 PM  8 years agoPost 13
jphilli

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Atlanta, Ga.

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As far as temp. thresholds, that's kinda hard to put a number on. What is certain is that the hotter the packs get, the fewer the cycles you can get out of them.

The TP 30C 3300's I run on my logo 400 get probably around 85-90 F and I run a very powerful setup. However the TP 30C 1800's I run on the Furion get to be about 100-105 F. Neither of those numbers are worrisome but if you're pushing 135+ F then either you're overdrawing your batteries or you're packs are too old and the internal resistance has gotten too high.

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06-06-2009 01:18 PM  8 years agoPost 14
kcordell

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O Fallon, MO

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2100 seems a bit slow for the Furion. It will fly much better once you get it up around the 3000 level. If you set it up per the instructions and with 100% on throttle, you should be right about there. Of course once you hit this speed, flight times will decrease. Most are getting from 4.5 to 5.5 minutes with a 2500 mah pack. Shorter for heavier 3D and longer for casual flying, but the additional head speed will eat up the battery (ie, flight times)

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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06-14-2009 12:27 AM  8 years agoPost 15
jason46

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MI

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For reference
The note with an SMC lipo states the lipo should never exceed 140F or damage may occur. For reference they also state 3.0V per cell is the min and damage may occur below 2.7V.

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06-14-2009 03:41 PM  8 years agoPost 16
lejon

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Las Vegas, Nevada

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Thanks for the temp data. I guess when it gets 115 here there will not be much flying.

Lejon

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12-19-2009 10:06 PM  8 years agoPost 17
elane17

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washington Usa

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Quote My recommendation is to fly out 75-80% of the rated capacity and shorten it if you notice the voltage getting too low. quote jphilli

I was wondering if there is a chart or an mathematic equation one could employ,to make sure that you were only using the 80% of the given cap ?
Thanks Eric

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12-19-2009 11:33 PM  8 years agoPost 18
kcordell

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O Fallon, MO

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Most of it is trial and error. I always start new packs off with a 2 minute flight and go up 30 seconds each flight until I reach the 80% mark on re-charge. Then I have the time down.

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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12-20-2009 09:57 PM  8 years agoPost 19
Danny Calderone

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South Jersey

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Most of it is trial and error. I always start new packs off with a 2 minute flight and go up 30 seconds each flight until I reach the 80% mark on re-charge. Then I have the time down.
Exactly the method I use. Has never let me down.

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12-21-2009 08:18 AM  8 years agoPost 20
naked painter

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Mid glamorgan uk

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9 minutes on a -6!! That's very good.....

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› Help understanding throttle curve and Lipo batreries for Furion 450
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