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HelicopterComputer Flight SimulatorsOther › plea for sims on more formats like iphone, xbox360
06-01-2009 07:28 PM  8 years agoPost 1
fluffhead

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grand rapids, MI

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why isnt this being done? both formats encourage both studios and independant developers to create software for them. I would love to have a version of a heli sim on my iphone to mess around with at work, or on the go when im bored. even if its a stripped down version with crappy graphics and mediocre controls, it would still be useful. Also why havent they made an xbox360 version of realflight or phoenix? It would obviously sell way more than a PC version.(all software sells more on consoles). It would be fantastic to practice on the simulator on my couch in front of my big screen tv with the surround sound. There would no issues with compatability, and much less tech support. They could make a dongle for the xbox usb port to allow you to use your transmitter, or even allow xbox controller functionality. or they could even allow use of the realflight controoler that already exists. It would also bring a ton of people into our hobby. This would make way more money than the PC version even if it sold for $60. So, please are you listeing Phoenix or Realflight? Please explain why this is a bad idea?

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06-01-2009 07:36 PM  8 years agoPost 2
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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mainly because an Xbox 360 cannot use the USB dongles needed to use our transmitters. or would require a crappy controller (like RF has) to be bought increasing costs.

They barley have support for mouse/keyboard now.

and a Sim would have to be dumbed down significantly for a console.
and that helps no one.

not to mention modding etc goes out the windows.

Consoles are too dumbed down and go obsolete too quickly.

Sorry consoles have their place but they do not have the power for flight sims that PCs do.
this is why you never see serious sims at all on the consoles as they just dont have enough computing power for all the math for physics.

Try running Black Shark or MSFX on a console it would have to be gutted to make it work.

Simulators are one of the few reasons PCs will never be completely phased out.

And yes I have both 360 and a PS3.. they are for drinking beer and sitting on the couch with friends playing hollow games that have half the substance of what a PC game does.

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06-02-2009 12:21 AM  8 years agoPost 3
QuantumPSI

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Atlanta, GA

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I'm going to have to grotesquely disagree with your statements USNA. The PS3 will run circles around any publicly available computer (this is in terms of RAW COMPUTING POWER). Contrary to your argument, the sim wouldn't have to be "dumbed down" but rather "smartened up" to run on the xbox 360 and PS3. PCs are single processor machines (some special ones are dual and multicore, but still, no more than 2 CPUs). But both the Xbox 360 and PS3 have multiple processors (3 in the 360 and 8 in the PS3). Writing code to operate on multiple processors to be executed efficiently is EXTREMELY difficult (hence games look better on 360 than PS3 right now (it's easier to write code for 3 processors than 8)). But in terms of raw computer power, the PS3 is the most powerful consumer electronic in the world right now. If software developers knew how to create software for the new architecture (8 processing cores vs. 1 or 2), the realism of a sim on the PS3 would be unmatched by any desktop or laptop machine. I don't deny that they are entertainment machines, but the fact remains, these entertainment systems are SERIOUS computing machines (you can check the numbers yourself).

And I just want to give you a small example of the type of power the PS3 yields. It runs a program called "folding@home" by Stanford University where it simulates protein structures. The simulations are divided up among SEVERAL computers across the world allowing Stanford to run more simulations a lot faster. Before the PS3 ran this program, the total computer power of all machines running this program was 200 TFLOPS. When the PS3 hit the scene, it jumped up to 1200 TFLOPS. And just to really send home the message, the PS3 made up less than 7% of the total machines running the program at the time (these numbers may have changed now, but it drives home the message).

Yes the PS3 is a GAME console, but do not sleep on its computing ability.

To answer the OP though, there was a game on PS1 I believe (I still have it) called RC stunt copter. It was a cool little game but wasn't very accurate. Further, look at the controls on our transmitters vs. these consoles (square vs. circle freedom of movement). Believe me when I say, this causes problems. As for a sim on the iPhone, yeahhhhhhhhh I'd imagine your iPhone would laugh if it tried to run something as intensive as a sim.

Edit: Forgot to mention, you don't need anything special to write a code to run on a computer whereas with consoles, you need a developers kit and/or rights from the manufacturer to sell a game for a particular console. In other words, it's too much of a hassle.

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part

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06-02-2009 03:23 AM  8 years agoPost 4
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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Quantum you are very very misinformed.
First of all whomever told you that the Procs on the current gen consoles are " more advanced than any PC" is a flat dumbsh1t period.

Every commercial PC these days even your POS Dells are multicore CPUs and have been for several years.

Most PCs are in fact 2-4 core these days.

The Cell Chip used in the PS3 is already outdated.
The Chip in the 360 is as well.
The Video chipsets that were included in both are now 3 generations old.
and do not even come close to performing what a quad SLI or dual Crossfire PC will do now. The Average video ram on a SINGLE modern PC Video card is now more than the entire PS3 or 360s total ram and most gaming PCs are running 2-3 of these cards in Crossfire or SLI thats 3 procs and 3 gigs of ram dedicated to just video rendering.

All current gen average vid cars are coming with 800-1gig of DDR3 ram.

On top of that you are also bottlenecked by the PS3 and the X360s slow older style SATA1 hard drives.

Also to note is that consoles do not have the cache nor the computing power to handle the millions of computations per second to accurantly keep up with todays high def flight sims. Hell the consoles cant even do the current gen of Crysis which even Crytek said would not be near the experience nor as high fidelity on the consoles.

The Average PC these days also has anywhere from 500Gigs of storage to over 2 teras that alone also cripples the consoles as game makers have to limit their install sizes. I have games that use over 20gigs of HD space these days.

Sorry man.. as long as consoles are unupgradable and have such long life cycles they will never be able to keep up with current PC tech that changes every few months.

there have been 4 CPU generations and 2 RAM generations as well as a SATA gen and 3 video card generations since this hardware was even close to cutting edge.
thats the problem with consoles.
they use decent but CHEAP and affordable hardware in order to be able to make their pricepoints.
When a GOOD gaming PC/ Graphics Workstation starts at 1500+ for an entry level machine. I spend way more on my PC than I do on my helis.
I upgrade every time a new gen comes out.

This PC is running a 4 core Intel i7 CPU running 8 gigs of DDR3 and triple SLI with over 5 teras of storage. for streaming music and video to the X360
Sorry neither of my consoles can hang.

Sorry but this is what I do for a living I have to keep up with the technology.

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06-02-2009 03:49 AM  8 years agoPost 5
fluffhead

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grand rapids, MI

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Ok guys, ive got issues with both of your posts. First USNA, youve got to be kidding right? first off, Modern consoles will run circles around PCs that were being built just a year or two ago. My computer is 3 years old and it runs modern simulators great. Have you even played a modern shooter on a console. If you think Gears of War or Resistance 2 or Metal Gear 4 or Call of Duty require less computing power than a flight sim, you are sadly mistaken. The environments of those games are rendered in 3d in realtime with dynamic colored lighting, multiple shadows, enemies, and non-player characters with good artificial intelligence. A flight sim reqires a pre-rendered 2d panoramic image for a background, and virtually all the cpu has to do is move around an object with some collision prediction based on controller inputs. Piece of cake. The consoles have standard USB ports just like a PC. so the phoenix dongle will work, all they need to do is write a driver for it.

Second, Quantum. The Xbox has an established game creators club where anyone can get a software development kit, the best games end up on xbox live arcade. Also Knife Edge and Phoenix are proven companies who have already demonstrated an ability to sell software. Im sure they would have no problem getting a software development kit, and with with a program as simple as a flight sim, it would be a very easy port over to any console. Did you know that that Id software has made the source code to popular games such as Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, and Quake public domain? and that ports have appeared all sorts of Devices? Ive seen DOOM running on a Digital Camera! I have Quake running on my jailbroken iphone. So this brings me to 2 points. First Its easy to port a well written program from one device to another. Second, the iphone is quite capable. It has a 620 MHZ processor. I've run more complicated flight sims on a computer with a 300 MHZ processor. Sure, maybe not as flashy as the most modern sims, but it is certainly possible to run a basic flight sim on the Iphone.

So I ask again, why isnt anyone porting their Sim to a console?

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06-03-2009 01:57 AM  8 years agoPost 6
Raptor3DPilot

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North Las Vegas, NV

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all that being said... you can go to http://www.x-plane.com and download a "full size" aircraft simulator for your iPhone, a buddy downloaded the free one and it was pretty awesome!

Remember when flying inverted that down is up and up is EXPENSIVE!

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06-04-2009 08:33 AM  8 years agoPost 7
johnb

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Guildford, Surrey UK

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jez, all of you guys talking about consoles and PCs are living in the past - in the future you won't need either..

just checkout onlive - http://www.onlive.com/ now that IS THE FUTURE!!!

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06-04-2009 01:55 PM  8 years agoPost 8
fluffhead

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grand rapids, MI

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the future? I'm talking about the present. please stay focused and try not to change the subject. flight sim on console or iPhone, not some baloney subscription service.

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06-04-2009 09:16 PM  8 years agoPost 9
QuantumPSI

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Atlanta, GA

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Oh this is getting good!!! USNA, I do not discount the advances in computer development, but still, the PS3 is still a heavy contender. Ok, individual components have improved (graphics cards, RAM, etc.) but there is still a POTENTIAL synergy in the PS3 that current computer architecture will be hard pressed to match. What pushes the PS3 beyond current computers is the architecture, not the individual components.

fluffhead, you're absolutely right. I didn't know Id made our sims though!?
Did you know that that Id software has made the source code to popular games such as Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, and Quake public domain?
Yeah, of course I did, they were classics... Hell I still remember the codes for doom (idkfa, idclip, idqdd, etc.) Good times!

When you put it that way, I guess it wouldn't be too much to ask for to have a sim on a console. I just don't see there being too much of a following though...

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part

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06-05-2009 03:45 PM  8 years agoPost 10
fluffhead

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grand rapids, MI

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I never said Id made our sims.

I disagree about there not being a following. let's say you are a teenager looking to get into rc helis or planes and you decide to get a simulator. are you more likely to have a good quality pc or a good console? if you have both which are you more likely to buy it for ? will your parents let you install it on the pc? Are they as likely to let you play for a long time on the pc? which way of playing is more comfortable, more social, more fun? If you have neither a PC or console but you really want a sim so you can learn to fly, are you more likely to spend $200 on a console or $1000 on a pc that may not even run it as well?

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06-05-2009 04:34 PM  8 years agoPost 11
CarterTG

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Chicagoland

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I for one am still having fun with my RealFlightDS

CTG
BladeCP, T-Rex CDE, RealFlight DS, RealFlight G3.5

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06-06-2009 12:02 AM  8 years agoPost 12
QuantumPSI

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Atlanta, GA

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Oops, misread...

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part

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06-07-2009 06:26 AM  8 years agoPost 13
fluffhead

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grand rapids, MI

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I for one am still having fun with my RealFlightDS
Cool. I didnt know that existed! thats exactly what im looking for. That should lay to rest any argument that you need a high end computer to run a sim. I cant imagine a realistic control scheme on a DS though.

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06-07-2009 06:52 AM  8 years agoPost 14
fluffhead

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grand rapids, MI

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I for one am still having fun with my RealFlightDS
HAHA, I think Ive been duped. Is this photoshoped? I cant find any other evidence of this on line.

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06-09-2009 01:21 AM  8 years agoPost 15
Sean Williams

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Santa Clarita CA

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I disagree about there not being a following. let's say you are a teenager looking to get into rc helis or planes and you decide to get a simulator. are you more likely to have a good quality pc or a good console? if you have both which are you more likely to buy it for ? will your parents let you install it on the pc? Are they as likely to let you play for a long time on the pc? which way of playing is more comfortable, more social, more fun? If you have neither a PC or console but you really want a sim so you can learn to fly, are you more likely to spend $200 on a console or $1000 on a pc that may not even run it as well?
The thing you're missing is that our hobby is minuscule compared to the market normal video games sell to. No store would stock a toy helicopter simulator because only a small minority would purchase it.

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06-09-2009 05:03 AM  8 years agoPost 16
RChristopher

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Bellaire, Tx

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OK, I have been simming for way too long, and been tinkering with computers since ... ugh, can't remember, and have tried the PS3/X Box version of software/sims and the main problem I have is the interface. The programing for the console as is will never equal the typical user abilities of the PC. PS3/XBox "Games" are geared for the casual player, don't get too envolved, "just let me shoot em up" type player. The processing power of the PS3 and XBox offer a lot, but the interface comes up short in user controlability. Therefore in my opinion, "Game" machines may win out due to the mass volume of "Dugh..." players, but those of us that prefer a greater degree of controlability will have to hope that there is enough of a market share to make the PC a continued viable option. Or... that the game machine designers consider an enhanced interface, similar to the PC. Now that would be cool!

As for a Heli sim on an I Phone - Dugh...

Just my 2 cents

Cheers

Bob C.

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06-09-2009 08:51 PM  8 years agoPost 17
VooDooX

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San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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are you serious that pcs are 1 processor where have you been my pc is a Duo Quatra core or 8 processors please learn more about computers before saying a ps3 is more powerful thank you i will not pose the rest of my specs as you will clearly not understand what it is

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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06-09-2009 09:36 PM  8 years agoPost 18
QuantumPSI

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Atlanta, GA

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Those are 8 cores, not 8 processors, cores and processors are 2 different things... Please do not try to insult me...

If I'm wrong, then let me know, but do NOT insult me!

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part

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06-09-2009 10:35 PM  8 years agoPost 19
VooDooX

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San Francisco Bay Area CA, US (San Mateo)

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wow no they are not different things

A multi-core processor is a processing system composed of two or more independent cores (or Computer Processing Units). The cores are typically integrated onto a single integrated circuit die (known as a chip multiprocessor or CMP), or they may be integrated onto multiple dies in a single chip package. A many-core processor is one in which the number of cores is large enough that traditional multi-processor techniques are no longer efficient — this threshold is somewhere in the range of several tens of cores — and likely requires a network on chip.

Velocity 50 "99.9999999999999% of an atom is empty space." also 01001000 01001001

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06-10-2009 06:12 PM  8 years agoPost 20
no1pylon

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Chorley, UK

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hmm interesting topic, I wouldn't want to compare a PS3 to a pc system. They aren't comparable. PS3 has multiple cores to process graphics, it has a streamlined operating system to cope with that so it can perform well on a lower hardware spec, a pc is more versatile than a games console.

8 cores ... 8 processors they would be the same thing depends how you want to interpret it but 8 cores within a single chip is as good as if not better 8 individual processors due to latencies between them although in some applications this isn't a problem and people would benefit from the extra cache memory on the separate processors.

Then again you could go all the way with parallel processing with GPU then you have yourself hundreds of cores (I think this is the way PS3 is set up)

That is all besides the point, the games wont be developed due to the small market in comparison to the more conventional games that they could have developed.

Check my Gallery

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HelicopterComputer Flight SimulatorsOther › plea for sims on more formats like iphone, xbox360
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