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HelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 30 › Clutches and Bell's Oh My !
03-22-2009 03:54 AM  8 years agoPost 1
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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I know we;ve beat this horse to death but I'm ready to try something radical.

Worn Linings, sprung shoes, wobbley shafts, worn bearings, worn seats in plastic frames, to loose a tolerence between the shoes and lining yada yada yada. Weve' heard and done it all.

I also so highley admire Sir John's great collection of clutches

I'm just getting ready to install another new bell - with a new lining .006 clearance ( total ) - and going to try a revolution H.D. clutch. After that it's in to my great collection of spares.

I'm not nearly wearing them out - practically new - but they get grabby on start up. Thinking their not staying dry and slippery enough) Usually under a gallon.

I'm looking at my collections - "closley catching up on Sir Johns" and thinkinng ( what if I vent a used bell so I can lube it with dry graphite from the top and keep them dry ??? Maybe the problem is the lube migrating down thru the start shaft and upper frame bearing or up from the sprague bearing withing the clutch making it tacky.

I figure one or two small holes in the top of the bell would give access and cool and blow the excesgraphite and debris out.

Is it worth a try ?? Anybody done it ??

greyeagle

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03-22-2009 12:01 PM  8 years agoPost 2
S Bell

rrApprentice

Nova Scotia Canada

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Do you own a dial test indicator because something isn't right. Loctite the bearing to the pinion with sleeve retainer. .003"per shoe may be too tight you need at least double that. If you burn in the clearance by holding the rotor it may heat the shoe excessively. If you have a couple thou of assembly runout matters will be nasty trying to start at .003' per shoe.

If you run a tight clutch clearance the clutch needs to be without any runout and the same applies to the clutch liner. The only way to make the liner that precise is in a lathe after dialing it in possibly using a 4 jaw chuck.

Don't use lubricant on the clutch liner or shoe.
The older liner is the same material most manufacturers use on their 50s. There is a newer type liner green in color.

If the machine will idle slowly without the blades turning you are good to go. Once the thing is mated the ingagement matters not. Usually the grabbing occurs as the engine pulses or momentarily accelerates on its power stroke when the clearance is too low.

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03-22-2009 12:39 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Peefor

rrVeteran

Norfolk UK

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Never had a problem with my clutches, but I have seen an aftermarket bell with slots milled in the top (flat) section, so a small hole or two should be OK.

Not a good idea to lube a clutch though...whatever you have in mind.

Pete

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03-22-2009 02:28 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Steve Cochrane

rrApprentice

Mount Dora,Florida

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Second on S Bell reply,
do not use lubes,check your run out and idle speed,theres something
wrong or you are missing.

Steve Cochrane (Fullpitch)
T.O.R.C.H.S. Orlando Member

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03-22-2009 03:01 PM  8 years agoPost 5
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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That collection of clutches I posted was Mike's (from raptortechnique.com)!

I have also noticed that lube will fling out from the clutch bearing so I'm careful now to put just enough in there to wet the metal.

It's been a while since I relined a clutch bell, having good luck/service from my current setups. I think a really good gap can be obtained by using a good clutch wrapped in two layers of black tape, though I have also had good results with just one layer of tape.

I know that the general consensus is to never 'bend back' the clutch shoes on a sprung clutch but I have had several clutches that have been 'slightly' sprung out - where the shoes were not exactly parallel but the liner on the bell was not burned down. The clutch would drag at idle. I put something behind the clutch shoe such as the blade of a screw driver and *carefully* bend the clutch shoe back with a pair of channel lock style pliers. The aim here is to get the clutch shoes back into position without bending them in and fatiguing the spring point. I've ran a few clutches like this and they worked for me. "YMMV"

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03-23-2009 03:47 AM  8 years agoPost 6
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Just installed a new clutch and bell w / new​liner

Here go's : new revolution cast steel type clutch / shoe set up, with new bell, new bell bearing, and hand installed liner with two wraps of tape. Lower fram bearing is also very current. " Last clutch " HA !

Id like to green tight the bearing to the pinion, but I'm not going to split frames every time I want to drop the bell.

My last option is going to be jumping to a V2 . I'm pretty convinced it's a material issue.

greyeagle

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03-23-2009 04:02 AM  8 years agoPost 7
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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I forgot we were talking about a V1 clutch here. Hope this go around gets the job done. My V1 clutch did well for me even after a hot start but I may have gotten lucky.

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03-23-2009 04:13 AM  8 years agoPost 8
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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If this get's grabby

I'm gona drill it "in place" - with the vacume - then I'm gona do the nastey with dixon 64 nodular powder and see if it will hook up - might be the first auto rotation from the ground up

Maybe it will be like a old mercury auto slush transmission.

Then switch over to V2 - If I'm gona kill it I'm gona bury it !

Then load three others up and go have some fun !

greyeagle

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03-23-2009 05:13 PM  8 years agoPost 9
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

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How do you measure the spacing? Is the starter shaft aligned nicely?

Are you sure you did not miss something on proper liner installation?
Maybe re-read
http://graphics.tudelft.nl/~wouter/...lutchliner.html

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03-23-2009 11:47 PM  8 years agoPost 10
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Excellent Read ! -- Pasman

I had it almost identical in proceedure - but wish I would of figured out the use of the 3mm bolts for removal - Grate tip !!!!

I'm going to lay in the necessaries for a full V-2 swap.

Frame,
Start shaft
Start shaft bearings
Bell - {maybe the revolution vented set up)
Clutch " yet to be selected" - ( anybody ?? ) Maybe stock ??
V2 coupler

I'm forgetting anything >>?? Maybe the 3rd bearing mod ??

greyeagle

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03-24-2009 02:14 PM  8 years agoPost 11
Swoop

rrElite Veteran

Newark, DE USA

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I'm forgetting anything >>??
Just a heads up, the start shaft bearing and pinion bearing are sold seperately. The pinion bearing comes in a pack with the mainshaft bearings.

Hope you have better luck with the V2 clutch. I have countless gallons through mine (all stock) and the only thing worn out is the one-way in the shoe itself.

Chris
X50, B320, Radix, Spartan
Titan,Kasama,MP5,Radix,JR770
Trex450SE,MavrikkG5,Phoenix35

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03-27-2009 04:57 PM  8 years agoPost 12
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

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Thanks!

I never felt the need for a 3rd bearing. Stock clutches work great.

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HelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 30 › Clutches and Bell's Oh My !
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