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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
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Mikado
Other › Tested Out New Scorpion 4020 and X-Era 4025
03-23-2009 05:06 AM  8 years agoPost 21
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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Thanks for the insight MrMel.

Now, what would YOU recommend for a Logo 500 3D on 25C 6s to get a decent headspeed (2200 +/-100) and flights of 5-6 minutes?

-Xera 4025-2Y (I have not found a higher KV Xera)

-Scorpion 4020

-Scorpion 4025

-Some other motor

???

Dave D.

Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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03-23-2009 07:06 AM  8 years agoPost 22
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Here is the thing,
You buy the bigger motor, but your packs are not up to it, so that little more current draw peaks might kill the packs, or make the motor bog more.

Thats just a sample, but as long as your motor not burning up after a flight it can probably do quite well.
But to figure out whats is best for you and your flying style, thats the problem

But in general, there is no free lunch, so when a person writes "running cool, much more powerful", they probably have different gearing and lower flighttimes

Today people "shop" by rating, but there is no standard for what those rating are set, nor any verification of them.
Thats why a 900watt motor in a 1200watt Heli-application can do better then a 1600watt motor
Why, the 900watt motor is bigger, and its rating is very conservative with no airflow, where as the 1600watt motor is a smaller motor on the other side of ratings.

Dont have a L500 myself, but as for motor to your 500, depending on your blade size, and flyingtype, either motor will do. If you have 550 blades I would pick a larger motor.
But if you go + side on the RPM, the equation probably dont work unless you have 6000mah packs.

When it comes to ESC I can only recommend one, its expensive, but as of today, there is no competition.
Kontronik Jive, a 100LV on a 500 (6s)

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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03-23-2009 08:24 AM  8 years agoPost 23
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years,​before mississippi​for 31y

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by MrMel
Here is the thing,
You buy the bigger motor, but your packs are not up to it, so that little more current draw peaks might kill the packs, or make the motor bog more.
well Im ganna have to call you on that quote to some extent
yeh! too big can hurt the performance, but naw! from my tons of motor changing in the last 3 helis( Razor, Trex and the joker , the bigger , the less amp pull, Joker 3DD is a hole new ball of wax though, but out of the Razor and Trex 600s, the 32-3 had way less amp pull than the 24-4 and that was all on 12S
Yeh! the KV of the 4025-2Y is alittle low for 6S , but it will work for mild 3D if the batteries are big ole 5000s, so yeh! I can see where in 6S and a lower KV can hit some big amps so Im guess thats what you talking about
It would be a real kicker for a X-Era 4020 1000 KV , maybe in the near future we might see it.
best to use the X-Era 4025 on 8S 40C 2700 3300s propowers that will be coming out soon, the 30Cs rock now though
I like Kontronics, but dont rule out the schulzes, too me the sculze have the best gov, and they just knocked 80% of the escs way down to compete with kontronics, for my big birds, Im looking at the 40-100 for almost 400 bucks

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03-23-2009 08:33 AM  8 years agoPost 24
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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I like Kontronics, but dont rule out the schulzes, too me the sculze have the best gov, and they just knocked 80% of the escs way down to compete with kontronics, for my big birds, Im looking at the 40-100 for almost 400 bucks
I havent tried the Schulze Gov last year, but know that Jive beats the Jazz by far, so if Schulze havent imroved their gov in the last few years, it could worth testing the Jive.

Havent tried the TGE controllers either, but heard that they should work good too.

Regards to motor size,
There is no free lunch, bigger motor might pull less peaks, or more peaks, lower or higher avg, its all about how you use it, and how you provide power to it.
But if you use more power, your fligthtimes WILL get shorter, thats only thing that is written in stone, you cannot have both unless something is seriously wrong in your setup.

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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03-23-2009 08:47 AM  8 years agoPost 25
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years,​before mississippi​for 31y

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yeh! the setup as well as the C rating of the batteries will have alot to do with it. HS and a big motor will suck them dry too, 550 size, and good HS to shoot for is 2400 to 2500 at max rpms and then gov it down to around 95% of that HS with a Kontronics esc, since kontronics will not let you run full 100% anyway, Schulze will let you rn 100% , best to gov it down to around 87 to 92% to see some good action out of the gov.
Yeh! theres no free lunch , but the X-Era is just efficeint as Kontronics 45 series or better. it sure took a while to get a motor that will out do the Actro

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03-23-2009 08:51 AM  8 years agoPost 26
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

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I'll get some FDRs as the weather gets better hopefully soon and we'll see if they got that efficiency for sho!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-23-2009 08:59 AM  8 years agoPost 27
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Regards to governors, schulze or kontronik or any other, its not that much magic too it, they need headroom to make up for the voltage drop, either they have it built in (you can run 100%) or not, regardless, how fast they react combined with your gearing makes up how good performance they provide.
The better pack you have the higher % you can run since you need less headroom.

But your right on TP30C, they are good voltage wise. (ive lab-tested them)
Note also that even if its easy to "suck em dry" as you say, they provide LONGER flighttimes because of holding higher voltage (ohms law applies), I got 8-10% longer flighttimes from my DP/Outrage vs FP

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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03-24-2009 01:29 AM  8 years agoPost 28
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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Ok MrMel,

Here's my build-spec:

-Logo 500 3D
-Kontronik Jive 100+LV
-Fut BLS451's (cyclic)
-Fut s9254 (tail)
-Spartan ds760
-Rotortech 560 Pro 3D blades
-Radix 92mm tail blades
-Mod 0.7 153T main gear (pinions available up to 19T only)

I'll be using (3) 22C Revolectrix 5300mAh and (3) 25C Outrage/DP 6s packs.

It averages 95 degrees here in the summer and I do mild 3D (but striving to improve 3D). I'd like to get 6-7 minutes flight at my current skill level and still keep the motor temps reasonable.

I guess I want my HS to be in the 2200-2400 range?

The motors I'm looking at are:

-Xera 4025-2Y 830kv or
-Scorpion 4020-1100 or
-(what else would you recommend?)

Thanks for any input you can give me.

Dave D.

Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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03-24-2009 04:28 AM  8 years agoPost 29
misskimo

rrElite Veteran

Alaska 17 years,​before mississippi​for 31y

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yeh! on 6S the XEra would work, but for it to be a kick azz motor, it needs 8 to 10S , I would look for a motor with a KV of around 1100 and to use a 14t pinion, mod .5
Gear for 2300 wide open, then gov down to 2200 with the kontronics esc , that should get you 6 to 7 min of good pop if the motor you choose is big enough, if its too small, it will grunt and be hitting amps, Im running a Actro 18-3 in my Logo, and it has a KV less than 1000, I set it up to run my 6S 3850s since I have 12 of those packs, my HS is 2000 , I get 5 1/2 mins with manics 550 blades, and 5 mins with my VBlade 550s. its not a ripping alan S type , but its good for pricticing

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03-25-2009 12:52 AM  8 years agoPost 30
HeliMan Dave

rrVeteran

Suburban Chicago

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Ok,

I think I've decided to go with a Scorpion.

Now, should I get the 4020-1100 or the 4025-1100???

The main differences are:

- motor winds (4020 is an 8 turn of 23 strand 29 AWG and 4025 is a 6 turn of 27 strand 29 AWG)

- No load current of 4020 is 2.45A and 4025 is 2.40

- Max continuous current of 4020 is 78A. The 4025 is 100A

- Max continuous power of 4020 is 1640 Watts. The 4025 is 2200 Watts

- Weight of the 4020 is 284 Grams. The 4025 is 326 Grams.

Actually, here is a pic of the actual specs:

Logo 700 / 600 / 500 V-Bar NEO / Blade 180CFX / mCPX BL / Nano / V-Control

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03-25-2009 01:09 AM  8 years agoPost 31
LJS

rrKey Veteran

Minnesota, USA

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Hi Dave,

I emailed Bobby Smith. He said we may see some X-Era 1100kv in the future. If you've got the time, it may be worth it to wait and see.

If you have to buy now, don't you think 1.5 ounces and $15 is worth the extra 560 W of power? I do.

Keep 'em flying.
LJS

Logo 600 VBar, 10S
TRex 600E VBar, 8S
Logo 500 VBar, 6S
TRex 600ESP, 6S

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03-25-2009 01:29 AM  8 years agoPost 32
Zaaaguy72

rrElite Veteran

MN

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I have been urging Bobby S. to push Xera into producing motors for the Logo 400 and Trex 500. The Xera motors are sweet. Bobby at RREMODELS does a great job at keeping us up to date on the newest products coming down the road!

Chris

Team Sanjel!

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03-26-2009 02:22 AM  8 years agoPost 33
LJS

rrKey Veteran

Minnesota, USA

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Hi All,

Just got my Scorpion 4025-1100. I have to say that Lucien has outdone himself with the packaging. It comes triple wrapped in plastic for security against moisture. And the rest of the packaging looks more like cologne than a model motor.

The weather here is supposed to be lousy for at least the next 10 days so I'm not sure when I'll get to try it out. Oh well, more time to spend building the 600...

Keep 'em flying.
LJS

Logo 600 VBar, 10S
TRex 600E VBar, 8S
Logo 500 VBar, 6S
TRex 600ESP, 6S

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03-26-2009 02:27 AM  8 years agoPost 34
SMITHB72866

rrVeteran

FLORIDA

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The 4025-1100 would be my motor of Choice on 6s for the 500

CC85 is my Esc of Choice in this machine as well for 8s

6s I recommend the CC125 set up right they work flawless THE BEST GOVERNER period

The 4020 is way to small for that size machine IMO

Ljs glad you are liking the Xera

RREmodels

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03-26-2009 02:42 AM  8 years agoPost 35
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

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B,

You feel the 4020-1100 is to small on the Logo 500? You must be more power hungry then me

CC governor working good these days? I have not ran them for awhile....

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-26-2009 02:46 AM  8 years agoPost 36
SMITHB72866

rrVeteran

FLORIDA

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Yea man

The 4020 is Just ok

I really think the CC gov setup right works really well

It does boil down to flying style as well

RREmodels

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03-26-2009 02:47 AM  8 years agoPost 37
Cameron

rrKey Veteran

St. Johns, Florida

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Bobby is very power hungry. I have flown his flybarless 700e with the X-Era and it is just ridiculous, RIDICULOUS! The power is just insane yet its very manageable to fly and the motor doesn't get nearly as hot as some of the Scorpions.

Cameron

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03-26-2009 02:48 AM  8 years agoPost 38
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

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Well I have a few of these motors on route, we'll see how they fair for sure in comparison. I have a 4025 here as well, maybe I will try it in my 500 as well to see how much diff there is, although I have been fairly satisfied with the 4020 on 16 tooth governed.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-26-2009 02:57 AM  8 years agoPost 39
SMITHB72866

rrVeteran

FLORIDA

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Cameron that is Funny my 700 FLybarless is a lot of fun for sure
That was with 2 year packs in it

Shawn you will like the Bigger can motor for sure

You should be able to re gear with the bigger motor to make it run cooler over the smaller 4020

With the Xera we have seen battery temps as low as 20 degree's less after a 5 minute flight

RREmodels

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03-26-2009 03:00 AM  8 years agoPost 40
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

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you mean drop to a 15 tooth versus 16 with the 4020,,, yea i might try that. Interesting on the packs, we'll see I got some for a 600 and my 700 coming to try, so hopefully weather and timing permitted I will see how well they work indeed, .

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
Helicopter
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Other › Tested Out New Scorpion 4020 and X-Era 4025
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