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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › Larry Tribe: 90% AIG Tax Is Constitutional
03-21-2009 08:13 PM  8 years agoPost 1
minan

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Janesville Wi. USA

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Laurence Tribe (Harvard) argues in the Atlantic and Wall Street Journal Law Blog that the proposed 90% tax on the bonuses paid out by AIG would pass constitutional muster under the Bills of Attainder and Ex Post Facto clauses Article I, Section 9; the Contract Clause of the Article I, Section 10; the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment; and the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment. (Hat Tip: Bruce Bartlett.) For more, see:

* H.R. 1586
* Description of H.R. 1586
* House Ways & Means Committee press release
* Senate Finance Committee press release
* Senate Finance Committee Chair Max Baucus statement
* Senate Finance Committee Ranking Member Charles Grassley statement #1
* Senate Finance Committee Ranking Member Charles Grassley statement #2
* Associated Press
* Bloomberg
* CNN
* Fox News
* Washington Post
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_...rry-tribe-.html

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03-21-2009 08:36 PM  8 years agoPost 2
JohnLund

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Corpus Christi, TX

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More distraction from the scumbags trying to save face to the public.

Ron's Heliproz South

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03-21-2009 10:40 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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Frankly, I don't believe it.

Primarily because the bonuses were given the OK to go through in the stimulus bill.

That means all these clowns that were leading this bail out in the first place knew about those bonuses before hand.

Thats makes the attempt to tax these bonuses a "Bill Of Attainder".

Mr Lawrence Tribe of Harvard conveniently left that out.

Just my 2 taxable cents.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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03-21-2009 10:47 PM  8 years agoPost 4
ch-47c

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san jose, ca

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No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Many lawyers on those TV shows some who were employed as Constitutional layers have said, The Constitution prevents Congress from the above in the First Amendment Article 1 Section 9. Attainer in the Constitution means punishment to a person or group by fine or imprisonment. They said that 90 percent tax is punishment. Congress is trying to get back on AIG for Congress's own lack of due deligence (ie...read the stupid 1000+ page Bill they wrote). They put egg on their own faces when all 100 percent Democrats and 3 stupid Republicans from Maine and Pennsylvania vote for the stimulus bill with Dodd CT (D), Frank MA (D), and Tim Geithner. The Federal Reserve and Treasury Dept knew all along what was doing on and helped ochestrated it. They all knew before hand and it is all documented. This all a distraction.

All those stupid grandstanding Congressmen chewing out CEO Liddy, yet they didn't hear one word, not one word as to what he said. They kept acting like he was the problem yet he wasn't on the payroll when all this happened and now he is working for $1. Who do these stupid Congressman think they are fooling. A Congress who think taxing into prosperity could even remotely work. Look at what all the help Congress has done. It's crippling to the market.

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03-21-2009 10:55 PM  8 years agoPost 5
Dennis (RIP)

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All those stupid grandstanding Congressmen chewing out CEO Liddy, yet they didn't hear one word, not one word as to what he said. They kept acting like he was the problem yet he wasn't on the payroll when all this happened and now he is working for $1. Who do these stupid Congressman think they are fooling. A Congress who think taxing into prosperity could even remotely work. Look at what all the help Congress has done. It's crippling to the market.
Exactly. And Obama is definitely guilty of this distraction business as much as the rest of them.

Proof of that is his lack of comment about it in the positive. If he was a true leader for the American people, he would have stepped in at before those hearings took place that Liddy was testifying and asked all those boob senators to get a handle on themselves and calm this thing down.

When, in fact, he fired it up even more by his comments.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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03-21-2009 11:01 PM  8 years agoPost 6
JohnLund

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Of course he did, anything to disract from his complete, and utter incompetence.

Ron's Heliproz South

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03-21-2009 11:10 PM  8 years agoPost 7
ch-47c

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This current Administration and Congress sounds like a sophomoric operation in high school. Like the Pom-Pom girls or Booster Club.

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03-21-2009 11:12 PM  8 years agoPost 8
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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This current Administration and Congress sounds like a sophomoric operation in high school. Like the Pom-Pom girls or Booster Club.
I would prefer the Pom-Pom girls to what we have now.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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03-22-2009 12:18 AM  8 years agoPost 9
baddynergy

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sierra madre, ca-​usa

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This is what happens when a person with NO track record is elected to lead what once was the best country in the world.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**

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03-22-2009 12:20 AM  8 years agoPost 10
CWALDO123

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Germantown , Tn -​Shelby

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All I can say is watch out David Copperfield. Obama is after your gig.

Hirobo Evo 50 ,Jr9303 ((( Are Those Things Hard To Fly ?? Nah !! Snicker )))

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03-22-2009 12:27 AM  8 years agoPost 11
Dragon2115

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New England

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And this is why rushing to prop up the house of cards is going to cost us.

The argument in a nut shell is this.
  • The employees apparently had contracts with their employer that predated any government involvement in the company.
  • The employees fulfilled their contractual obligations.
  • The employer is now obligated by law to pay the money agreed upon in those contracts.
This is why when you're about to buy a company you look at all of their liabilities. These contracts were a listed liability of the company and any buyer that did their due diligence would know that they existed. Just because we bought the company that doesn't mean that the liability goes away or the contracts are null and void. Oh no. For that to happen the company has to go bankrupt. And that's when the Feds should have stepped in and picked up the pieces. But in our rush to "do something" to save a company that we perceived as "too big to fail" we are now responsible for any and all liabilities of AIG.

But then look at the players. Geithner was head of the NY Federal Reserve Bank. Cozy with Wall St. bankers? He IS a Wall St banker. Then there's Dodd. He's right there for his pals on Wall St. because many of them live in western CT and donate heavily to his political campaigns. Lets not forget Charles Schummer. He's so far in the pocket of the bankers that even the NY Times wrote an article over it. It turns out that he attached a "poison pill" amendment to a bill that would have reined in some of the financial fun and games Wall St was playing. That bill wouldn't have stopped the current situation, but it would have lessened it. And last but not least on this hit parade is fat boy Bbbbbbb... Barney Frankenberry. This guy is so stupid he doesn't even realize that it was his own belief that anybody earning minimum wage should be able to get a morgage and his own policies pushing that agenda that have undermined our financial system and brought it to its knees. I will give him credit though. He has masterfully managed to convince the mush minds in his district that it was all someone elses fault.

These are the main players behind the TARP bill. Bush may have signed it, but it was these dopes that had a heavy hand in its writing. And all of these so called financial "experts" claim they didn't see a 218 million dollar liability sitting on AIG's books. Well all except Chuckie. He was so smart he announced publically that there were big problems at Fannie and Freddie which inspired investors to pull their money percipitating the chain reaction that has landed us here. Brilliant.

And now in order to try and save face they're going to try and enact a punitive tax on a group of people because they don't like how they made their money regardless of the legalities. So much for all this crap they spew about the rule of law. Personally I hope they enact the tax and the people sue and win. Then these brain surgeons will not only have to pay out the money these people are owed but they will have cost us another 100 million in legal costs. Can't wait to see the spin in the news cycle that week. Again, brilliant.

Just remember folks, a majority of us voted to take this idiotic ride through never-never land where simply throwing money at problems fixes everything. A minority of us knew better though, and we'll be the ones telling you "I told you so" when the bill comes due and we make our first installment payment in our 2012 tax returns. Right about then the loons are going to realize just how screwed up this plan was. But mark my words, true to form these people will still try to blame Bush.

[/rant]

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03-22-2009 01:11 AM  8 years agoPost 12
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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Good rant! Right on the money. Geithner knew about the bonuses and had it written into the porkulous bill so that they wouldn't get sued and now they are going to get sued for trying to steal the money back.
Every idiot who signed the bill should be impeached or forced to resign in shame. Or even better shot, for crimes against the constitution!

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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03-22-2009 01:50 AM  8 years agoPost 13
Dennis (RIP)

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Every idiot who signed the bill should be impeached or forced to resign in shame. Or even better shot, for crimes against the constitution!
Including Obama.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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03-22-2009 02:59 AM  8 years agoPost 14
drdot

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So. California,​Orange County.

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fwiw..

Right on, Dragon!!!...Even Mark Geragos could win this one, and it would be an EXTREMELY dangerous precedent.

BC

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03-22-2009 05:10 AM  8 years agoPost 15
ch-47c

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san jose, ca

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Man this slow train wreck is going to get real ugly in the next year or two. There needs to be an impeachment of many.

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03-22-2009 05:21 AM  8 years agoPost 16
Dennis (RIP)

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Oregon

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If the past 4 or 5 months is an indication, things could get very ugly here in the USA. People are starting to get very concerned. Very concerned.

What we have right now is a form of deflation where people slow down and could stop spending other than for essentials. When that happens, manufacturing, shipping, retail, wholesale starts to slowly shut down across the country.

The recent deposit of 1 trillion dollars into bank coffers from the federal reserve last Thursday should be a very strong indication. The fed cannot lower interest rates because they are near zero now. So, they made that deposit of money that does not exist in the hopes that banks would start lending. But, since people are not buying, they are not borrowing either. That was a LAST resort and very, very risky move by the fed. You did not see that news in the regular media because of all this hype over those exec bonuses. There is your distraction. That's why China is starting to sqawk. They know what's coming. There is nothing in the history of the world that proves that 1 trillion dollar deposit by the fed will have any impact. To late now.

If things do start to recover, then we will see some nasty inflation because of all the government spending.

Anyway you look at it, we are in for some serious hard times for all.

Thanks Obama
Thanks Nancy
Thanks Democrats

As far as an impeachment, I don't think there is enough votes for that in the House or the Senate yet. A recall right now by the people would have a strong affect on them. Get those tea parties going.

Liberty once lost, is lost forever.

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03-22-2009 12:22 PM  8 years agoPost 17
minan

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Janesville Wi. USA

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"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

http://www.cftech.com/BrainBank/SPE...mpeachment.html

Some how I don't think that what President Obama has done falls into the category of high crimes and treason, at least not yet. Wouldn't it be interesting if the US had a parliamentary style of government where a vote of no confidence could be taken.

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03-22-2009 01:16 PM  8 years agoPost 18
ch-47c

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The recent deposit of 1 trillion dollars into bank coffers from the federal reserve last Thursday should be a very strong indication. The fed cannot lower interest rates because they are near zero now.
That is basically the last thing the Fed can do. And yes hugh inflation will come. I know most Americans aren't even aware of the consequence. And yes impeachment votes aren't there with the Dems in the majority, but I feel it is justified.
Wouldn't it be interesting if the US had a parliamentary style of government where a vote of no confidence could be taken.
Yes, but the Dems will vote to protect their own no matter how bad things get. I think we will have to wait until 2012 for anyone with any money or business expertice to replace these clowns.

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03-22-2009 01:39 PM  8 years agoPost 19
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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If this garbage passes to tax these bonus's. because they say that they are not deserved due to lack of performance then I say we propose a bill for the same reason to tax every congressman and senators pay at the same rate for the same reasons!!!! what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Tom

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03-22-2009 01:51 PM  8 years agoPost 20
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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This tax thing is very serious! If they get away with it in this test case then it will be used against every one on their enemy list.
The end of liberty in America! Obama will be king!

Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!

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HelicopterOff Topics News & Politics › Larry Tribe: 90% AIG Tax Is Constitutional
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