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HelicopterMain Discussion › Gyro Set Up Again
03-21-2009 12:45 AM  8 years agoPost 1
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville,​Ohio

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I flew with my buddy today, and he is a pro pilot, from rr as a matter of fact. Anyways, we re-calculated the eletronic set up of my Gyro, as I was doing it incorrectly.

Everything has been centered correctly, then trimmed out in Non-heading hold mode, which is on center.

When I switch into HH, and the tail is rock solid, with hands off, both stixs as a matter of fact, in Idle Up Mode.

Hear is my error:

While in HH, and going from NM to Idle up Mode, the helicopter seriously swings to the right, and then locks in solid to hands off completly. Almost like settings are way different from NM to stunt mode.

My gain is set up to 60%. My NM head speed is relitivly close to idle up speed at the point of making the switch from NM to Stunt mode.

Is there a possibility I have a dual rate that is off somwhere between NM and idle up, which causes the swing to the right?

As far as I can tell the rudder dual rate is set to Linear, as I all my other DR's. I do have 33% of expo all around.

Do I have a mechanical error, or electronic error in my TX settings?

"I just don't Listen" "

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03-21-2009 01:52 AM  8 years agoPost 2
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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does your radio have seperate trims for each mode or are they global?
As far as I can tell the rudder dual rate is set to Linear
can you explain this a little more?
the helicopter seriously swings to the right,
do you mean it goes to the right as in aieleron or the tail swings to the right?

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03-21-2009 02:00 AM  8 years agoPost 3
TOSH

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UK.Peterborough

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While in HH, and going from NM to Idle up Mode, the helicopter seriously swings to the right, and then locks in solid to hands off completly. Almost like settings are way different from NM to stunt mode.
If there`s a big change in headspeed between the two modes it could do that.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-21-2009 02:03 AM  8 years agoPost 4
LONEWOLF2440

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MYRTLE BEACH S.C

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probably cause u have it trimed in normal mode if its set up right there shouldnt be any trim at all

MIKADO LOGO 600 TREX 550

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03-21-2009 02:13 AM  8 years agoPost 5
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville,​Ohio

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Instead of quoting all, I will answer everyones questions from the top down. Thanks

Yes, It does have seperate "trims", for eash channel. http://www.helistuff.net/images/sto...6644-manual.pdf

The dual rate for the rudder is linear. I just wanted to mention this, as Im not sure if this could effect anything, and Im still not?..

The tail swings to the left, which making the nose swing to the right. This happens instantly, with going into instantly being locked in perfectly. An example is, as fast as a light switch is tuned on and off. It swings about 4-6 inches.

Head speed: There was a great difference. We then adjusted to whee there is minimal difference, at half stick, when switching between the 2. The tail movment is lessoned with the adjusted head speed, but still there.

In my original post, I said I lifted off in Non Heading hold, to see if there was any drifting. Since there was NOT, no trim was needed. So the trim for the rudder is dead center.

The weird thing is, I Had the gryo HH set up and holding really good without having the non heading hold even adjusted at all. Now that I have programmed my gyro using the Non-heading hold, and getting that locked in, then switching to HH, this has happend.

Somthing else I didnt mention before, since the new programming, while in HH, the tail drifts a bit, but when I switch into idle up, its literly hands off for atleast 10 seconds, and that is both stixs.

"I just don't Listen" "

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03-21-2009 02:20 AM  8 years agoPost 6
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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ok.well first dont use trim on an HH gyro,adjust your linkages if necessary

if the tail is swinging out when switching to HH up your gain a little

a lot of guys put the gain to the highest setting possible without tail wag.

I dont like to do it this way as i feel it just drives the tail servo more than necessary.and makes stops from fast tail manuvers very 'hard"
I set the gain so that the tail holds when doing a full throttle punchout

for sport flying and mild aerobatics it holds great.when the time comes and I am pushing the heli more I will add more gain if necessary

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03-21-2009 02:36 AM  8 years agoPost 7
TOSH

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UK.Peterborough

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Brian
l honestly couldn`t tell you if mine does that. l switch into idle up befor the skids leave the ground and l land in throttle hold. So even if it does l don`t care. There is no reason to fly in normal mode. Normal mode is really just for spool up.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-21-2009 02:49 AM  8 years agoPost 8
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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next time you get to fly,do a couple of full throttle punches and see if the tail swings out on you.if it does, add a little bit of gain each time till the tail holds well.once you find the propper setting, this should be fine till you start doing more advanced manuvers

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03-21-2009 02:58 AM  8 years agoPost 9
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville,​Ohio

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Honestly, puch outs are some of my favorite things to do, as I love the sound of the blades ripping the aqirwaves up. I did do about 5 puch outs later throughout the day, and the tail is holding really good.

As far as trim, I have not used trim in HH, nor Non heading hold, as the heli in both rates ran true.

From the sounds of it, this sounds like a gain issue, but Im already to 65% if I remember correctly(Im within 5 points here). From what I have read before around here, is that mI shouldnt have to go any higher then 50-70%.

If I cant pin point this soon, I am going to readust, and take Non-Heading hold out of the equaztion, as the HH worked fine like this before. But, Im always up for ideas here.
'
Thanks for the help fellos..

"I just don't Listen" "

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03-21-2009 07:36 PM  8 years agoPost 10
Skarn

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Pasadena, MD

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Brian,

You said it was working fine before in HH mode. I'm not sure why you changed anything! You ended up doing a drifless rate mode hover which is NOT necessary with most HH gyro's like a 401 unless you plan on flying in HH mode!

I would go back and do it the simple way. Put slider at center in rate mode, ensure no binding with the limit pot, switch back to HH mode and have fun!

Skarn

It's better to burn out than to fade away...

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03-22-2009 08:23 AM  8 years agoPost 11
mchammer

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California,USA

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sounds like you have gyro gain setup correctly in one flight mode but not the other(s).

Peace Through Superior Firepower!!!

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03-22-2009 10:04 AM  8 years agoPost 12
Paul Woodcock

rrElite Veteran

Dubai - United Arab​Emirates

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Hi

With these things, always go back to basics. Which heli, radio and gyro.

Check the mounting tape. Hard or damaged tape needs replacing.

Check there is NO rudder trim in Normal, Stunt 1 and 2.

Check there ard no mixers programed on rudder or the gain channel. Check this on the p-mix page. And double check on the 'servo monitor' page in Normal, St1 and 2.

Assuming it is a Futaba 401 type that needs no yaw in non hh. check it and adjust the rudder pushrod. (not trim)

Check your travel limit setting for max movment and no binding (check on both sides)

You mentioned that the head speed is similar in normal and st1 at 1/2 stick.....this sounds funny. Are you saying that the normal rpm varies and happens to be similar at 1/2 stick? If you have a FULL 3d setup on st 1 and 2 and you are switching at 1/2 stick, there will be a big 'jump' in the pitch between the normal and st1+2. You would bet a big drop in height on the heli that requires a stick movment. This could well cause a tail swing...

Having a constant rpm is probably the biggest trick to good gyro performance.

PM me if you need more help.

Regards
Paul

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03-22-2009 10:46 AM  8 years agoPost 13
TOSH

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UK.Peterborough

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pwood
Which heli, radio and gyro.
E325 HELI, JRX6102, Futaba 401 Gyro, w/ Align 430L, 35 amp ESC
bottom of all his posts.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-22-2009 01:12 PM  8 years agoPost 14
Thomas L Erb

rrKey Veteran

Alliance ohio

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just a thought that may not have been mentioned alos is check to see that there is no subtrims either on rudder. Tom

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03-22-2009 03:16 PM  8 years agoPost 15
Flying Brian

rrElite Veteran

St. Clairsville,​Ohio

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Thanks for all the info..

I have checked throughly throuout the system, and Im sure fenderstat has nailed it, and following my exact posts, he has weeded out the simplest equazion. More Gain!!

Thanks fellas....

EDIT: So far after several hover tests, I still have not been able to eliminate the the tail moving hard to the left, in NORMAL MODE. But switching up, the HH is key on. So either I live with it, or reboot the whole set up, and try again, or set up strickly for HH, as this was the original set up that works perfect as well.

"I just don't Listen" "

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