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HelicopterMain Discussion › CCPM interaction
03-20-2009 06:38 PM  8 years agoPost 1
QuantumPSI

rrElite Veteran

Atlanta, GA

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So, as my flying skills have progressed, my need for a properly setup machine increases as well. I've had CCPM interaction on my 450 for quite some time but never really cared, but now it's starting to annoy the crap out of me. I'm working on it now and doing the best I can to get rid of all the interaction. I've noticed something though... I need to adjust the links but the problem is that the adjustment I need is really minute (like, I need to turn it a quarter turn cause a half turn is too much). So, I started using the subtrim for even finer adjustment and man that just messes up other stuff (swash level at one point, but not others). Honestly, it really makes me wonder if it's possible to get it PERFECTLY setup or just close. Either way, here's my thinking.

I'm going to adjust the links the best I can to get the swash level at center stick and make sure the servos are straight (90 degree) and then if necessary, at the ends of collective range, I'll just use a small mix. I know it sounds like cheating, but unless I bend the links (to shorten them ever so slightly), I'm not going to be able to get it perfect (always off like .5 to 1.5 degrees). I would do the bending method but that is so imprecise which is not what I want. Either way, I'm going to do the best I can. If the links had finer adjustment, I could get this PERFECT... ah well.

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part

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03-20-2009 06:40 PM  8 years agoPost 2
deafheliflyer

rrKey Veteran

Arizona

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hi

make sure the EXPO on your pitch curves are ENABLED... and then recheck pitch..

That takes away a lot of the interactions.

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

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03-20-2009 06:50 PM  8 years agoPost 3
QuantumPSI

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Atlanta, GA

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Yeah, it's active (running X9303). So I just discovered that only the first 2 mixes allow you program a curve, which bites, because I'm using those for phase mixing. No biggy, the phase mixing only needs end point mixing, however, to keep the swash level throughout the pitch range, I'm going to need to offset the center slightly.

I can't the swash PERFECTLY level at center stick (it's off by like one degree) and an adjustment on the links adjusts it too far. Grrrrr

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part

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03-20-2009 06:55 PM  8 years agoPost 4
what_the_helli

rrKey Veteran

cookeville, tn USA

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I was under the impression that subtrim only moves the center of the total servo travel. It should still move only linear. So it should have no other effect after you set the upper and lower travel limits.

I am sure someone smarter than me will chime in here shortly

I put the fun in dysFUNctional :)
Team KBDD & Funding by TnPrintMasters.com

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03-20-2009 07:02 PM  8 years agoPost 5
deafheliflyer

rrKey Veteran

Arizona

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hi

I used the leveler, then I used subtrim to get it perfect..

But then again, maybe I did it wrong but, I dont notice interaction.

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

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03-20-2009 07:12 PM  8 years agoPost 6
QuantumPSI

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Atlanta, GA

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Using a very shallow mix, I've gotten rid of 98% of the interaction. There's still a very small amount left, but I doubt it'll be perceptible in the air (at least I hope not). With the way the servos are laid out and the angles of the linkages, I don't think it's possible to get it mechanically 100% perfect, hence the cheating with the radio . The interaction was only occurring with aileron and I think everything is ok now. Need to check my pitch range to make sure that didn't screwed up through all of this.

Edit: Everything looks good, now to recharge this pack and go give it a try. Maybe my flips, tic tocs, and inverted climbouts will actually stay straight today!

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part

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03-20-2009 07:24 PM  8 years agoPost 7
TOSH

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UK.Peterborough

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This bit bothers me.
I'm going to need to offset the center slightly.
To my mind you should have started at mid stick and got that level by adjusting the rods. Then do top and bottom with end points in the TX.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-20-2009 07:44 PM  8 years agoPost 8
QuantumPSI

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Atlanta, GA

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Yes, I know TOSH, but like I said up above, it's virtually impossible to get the swash PERFECTLY level with the links. Even adjusting the links a half turn would be too much. As of right now though (by twisting the links on the balls), it's as close as it's going to get and I don't need an offset in the radio (one click in the radio is too much).

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part

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03-20-2009 08:03 PM  8 years agoPost 9
LaurenceGough

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Reading, UK

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QuantumPSI I do the same thing, a whole turn just isn't accurate enough. Get it as level as you can first using the links while having all the servo horns dead 90 degrees (I even made a tool for this), then using a swashplate leveller use subtrim to get it level at mid stick. Then at the ends adjust travel end points. My swashplate is 100% level throughout the whole collective range no matter how fast you move the collective.

What mixing are you using in your 450?

www.laurencegough.com
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03-20-2009 08:22 PM  8 years agoPost 10
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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A 9303 has limited ability to deal effective with CCPM geometry issues.
I was under the impression that subtrim only moves the center of the total servo travel. It should still move only linear. So it should have no other effect after you set the upper and lower travel limits.
Sub trim by design moves the center and the endpoints. The function doesn't care if you are using CCPM or not.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged

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03-20-2009 09:06 PM  8 years agoPost 11
Andy from Sandy

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Bedfordshire, UK

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A 9303 has limited ability to deal effective with CCPM geometry issues.
In which case either get a 14MZ or 12FGH or fit a Cyclock. Of these the Cyclock is obviously the cheapest, doesn't compromise the fact you like JR radios and ensures the servos get their signals almost simultaneously.

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03-20-2009 09:10 PM  8 years agoPost 12
TOSH

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UK.Peterborough

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Cyclock on a 450. How big is that unit.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-20-2009 09:21 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Andy from Sandy

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Bedfordshire, UK

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It is the same size as the 720 gyro. They use the same case by the looks of the pictures on the CSM website.

Put the gyro under the boom clamp and the cyclock behind the motor. Loads of room!

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03-20-2009 09:38 PM  8 years agoPost 14
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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It is the same size as the 630's that I run on the 450 anyway.

TM

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03-20-2009 09:42 PM  8 years agoPost 15
TOSH

rrElite Veteran

UK.Peterborough

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Can`t help thinking it`s a bit over the top for a 450, l mean whatever you do to it you`re always going to be busy on the sticks. lt`s the nature of the beast.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-20-2009 09:45 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Andy from Sandy

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Bedfordshire, UK

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Yes the 630, 720 and cyclock all use the same case.

http://www.rcmodels.org/csm/

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03-20-2009 10:05 PM  8 years agoPost 17
kangarooster

rrApprentice

Orlando Fl-USA

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Ever thought of converting to 140 degree CCPM?

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03-20-2009 10:18 PM  8 years agoPost 18
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New​Zealand

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QuantumPSI I do the same thing, a whole turn just isn't accurate enough. Get it as level as you can first using the links while having all the servo horns dead 90 degrees (I even made a tool for this), then using a swashplate leveller use subtrim to get it level at mid stick. Then at the ends adjust travel end points. My swashplate is 100% level throughout the whole collective range no matter how fast you move the collective.
FINALLY, someone who gets it!! The proper way to do it is to use subtrim at center stick and endpoint adjustment at the extremes.

Also see this thread:
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...ght=interaction


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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03-20-2009 10:22 PM  8 years agoPost 19
TOSH

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UK.Peterborough

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FINALLY, someone who gets it!!
We`ve been saying that all along.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-20-2009 10:25 PM  8 years agoPost 20
LaurenceGough

rrElite Veteran

Reading, UK

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To my mind you should have started at mid stick and got that level by adjusting the rods. Then do top and bottom with end points in the TX.
What we was trying to say is that rods do not give enough fine adjustment.

www.laurencegough.com
Sponsors:
Fast Lad Performance
OPTIFUEL
Horizon Hobby
Spektrum

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HelicopterMain Discussion › CCPM interaction
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