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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Engine (G26) bogging down
03-20-2009 06:04 PM  8 years agoPost 1
jgoodsell

rrApprentice

Sherbrooke, Qc,​Canada

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I've been flying all winter witn my GSR260, fine tuning averything for my first summer of AP work. Last Week-end I took her out in my back yard for a litle spin at +10deg C (50F) and started loosing power on the climbs loaded with mount and Camera at 6 lbs. but I'd regain everything the head speed with a moderatly fast decent..

It hovers nice at mid stick, the plug is nice lite chocolat color.
I just don't know where to start.. I tried to raise point 4 on the Th curve a bit but that didn't change much.

The motor wasn't too hot to the touch ~1.5 second with my fingers on it was supportable

Is it the higher ambiant tempatures ??
Do I need the lean the Hi needle a little ??
Am I running a bad head speed ( I don't have a tach yet)

Jeffrey

I have an onbord video with sound that I'm gonna try and compress a little to shoiw you guys

Jeffrey

It seams that Gravity is worst around here !

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03-20-2009 07:14 PM  8 years agoPost 2
TaleGunner

rrElite Veteran

Deer Park WA

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Although I don't have enough experience yet with my 260(Hanson 3D Max)to be of help, I was wondering if you flew it all winter loaded down? If not maybe this is just what you should expect adding 1/3 again the weight of the heli. I have not put any extra on mine yet to see what it does.
anyhow I'm watching. the pros will reply cuz its an interesting topic.

Good Luck

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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03-20-2009 07:19 PM  8 years agoPost 3
rotoryrob

rrVeteran

Auburn WA

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try looking at the internal screen or filter in the pump part of the the Carb. That is what did it to mine. Deposites were restricting fuel flow. So it would hover great but when you opened it up it would lean and loose powerer once I backed the throttle back it would run fine for a while....

Rotoryrob

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03-21-2009 12:16 AM  8 years agoPost 4
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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and started loosing power on the climbs loaded with mount and Camera at 6 lbs.
Does this mean you were flying all winter without the 6 lbs of weight?
Am I running a bad head speed ( I don't have a tach yet)
For the love of Pete, how would we know? You bought a high end heli, a camera mount and a camera but no tach??? It will never cease to amaze me what people will do and not do. Do you have a video camera? At least train the viewfinder on the head and get the blades to stop. That will give you some idea what the head is doing.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-21-2009 12:47 AM  8 years agoPost 5
TaleGunner

rrElite Veteran

Deer Park WA

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Acebird
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and started loosing power on the climbs loaded with mount and Camera at 6 lbs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does this mean you were flying all winter without the 6 lbs of weight?

Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Am I running a bad head speed ( I don't have a tach yet)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the love of Pete, how would we know? You bought a high end heli, a camera mount and a camera but no tach??? It will never cease to amaze me what people will do and not do. Do you have a video camera? At least train the viewfinder on the head and get the blades to stop. That will give you some idea what the head is doing
Did that make you feel better? that was absolutely uncalled for!
Ill bet you were one of those guys who knew everything when you just started out?

Try and be helpful or don't post, recommend he get a tach don't tell him hes a dumbass.

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

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03-21-2009 12:47 PM  8 years agoPost 6
electro212

rrVeteran

Lancaster Pa

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Well a tach and a pitch gauge is one of the basic tools for helis

I have no clue how anyone can setup there heli with out one
and the phrase "it sound fast enough" just does not cut it!!

Please for the safety of YOUR heli get a tach.
you head speed might suprise you

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03-21-2009 02:03 PM  8 years agoPost 7
jgoodsell

rrApprentice

Sherbrooke, Qc,​Canada

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First thing,

I did fly it all winter with weights
I don't own a Tach BUTI usualy share one with a friend who down south
Head speed was around 1350 last time we check I suppose it didn't change because I don't check it every time out !!!!
pitch setting is -6 +6 +10 (with robart pitch gauge)

I'll have a video to post today soon

Thank to those who answer the firts real questions
and to the good intentions

Jeffrey

It seams that Gravity is worst around here !

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03-21-2009 07:15 PM  8 years agoPost 8
jgoodsell

rrApprentice

Sherbrooke, Qc,​Canada

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here is the video

http://www.vimeo.com/3791461

It seams that Gravity is worst around here !

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03-21-2009 07:48 PM  8 years agoPost 9
j.8

rrVeteran

Denmark

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Hi jgoodsell

After waching your video, the engien don`t appear
to be hot, as you say, it did`t selfignite, at
idle after landing.

Since you ajusted the needles during the vinter,
colder temperature, more oxygen per cubic/unit.
And when the engien has started bogging during a
higher temperature, less oxygen per cubic/unit.
You know the more oxygen the more fuel the engien
can burn.

Rule number one though when talking gasser helis,
if in doubt richen your needles, but due to what
appeared to be a not hot engien after landing.
Try to lean the high needle in small steps and se
if that helps out, keep making a temp reading after
each landing. Best thing would be a tempgun.

I don`t know that heli, what`s the gear ratio,
1350 sounds a little low, do you know if the engien
is running in it`s powerband.

Regards Bo

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03-22-2009 01:17 AM  8 years agoPost 10
KarbonBird

rrKey Veteran

Australia

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I had a similar problem on the GSR.

I started all my L & H needle settings again and played with my pitch and throttle curves. Headspeed is a big factor to consider. As has already been mentioned, the tach is the only way to address this. My wife is the reluctant tach opp, but it doesn't take long and it's certainly worth doing.

I raised this issue some while ago (with a vid) after experiencing it on a few occasions. A quick search will provide the info.

KB

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03-22-2009 04:04 AM  8 years agoPost 11
Wayne Parrish

rrVeteran

Apex,NC,USA

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I richened my high needle 1/8 turn from 1.5 turns out and it picked up an is running much better and with significantly more power ! Won't cost anything to try it.

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03-22-2009 04:37 AM  8 years agoPost 12
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South​Carolina

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If you don't have an aluminum insulator between the carb and the cylinder, it could cause the problem when the heli is at high power and higher load. The cold could have amplified the problem.....that is if you didn't have the aluminum insulator. Just a thought....other than that, richening up the high end would be the first place I would start.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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03-22-2009 01:10 PM  8 years agoPost 13
sasa

rrNovice

UAE

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check first air filter and invoke some times comes in middle by vibration so not enough air for engine then check throttle linkage if you use governor and make wide movement at maximum if no governor check throttle curve

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03-22-2009 02:06 PM  8 years agoPost 14
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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Please for the safety of YOUR heli get a tach.
you head speed might suprise you
For the safety of everything and everyone around you know what your headspeed is however you measure it.

Talegunner, I did not call anyone a name and certainly not the one you suggested. I do believe my post has merrit you can believe whatever you want to believe.
Head speed was around 1350 last time we check
The density of the air decreases with an increase in temperature so you will not be able to lift the same weight in the summer that you can in the winter. The higher temperature also decreases the oxygen in the air so the engine will have less power. 1350 headspeed seems slow to me for carrying heavy weight. Are you risking a stall with such a slow speed?

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-22-2009 04:19 PM  8 years agoPost 15
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South​Carolina

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The higher temperature also decreases the oxygen in the air so the engine will have less power.
Ace, with all due respect.....higher temps don't decrease the oxygen....it decreases the density of the air, therefore taking more "gulps" of air to make the same amount of power.

If less oxygen were the case, all of us down in the South would be be suffocating in the summer.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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03-22-2009 06:36 PM  8 years agoPost 16
jgoodsell

rrApprentice

Sherbrooke, Qc,​Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well I went flying yesterday and got the power back by opening the low needle little but now I get a vibe (blury) in the vertical fin and when I cut back on the throttle, I get a short (engine miss). The high needle wasn't giving the effects wanted !

All this with 5.5 lbs at 8 deg C (46 deg F) engine is at 90-93 deg C (190-200 deg F)on landing.

I might be able to find a tach today so I'll keep you all posted.

All I'm worried about if that new Vibration I'm getting, I can't make sense on it since I enriched the low needle !!

Jeffrey

It seams that Gravity is worst around here !

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03-22-2009 07:59 PM  8 years agoPost 17
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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it decreases the density of the air, therefore taking more "gulps" of air to make the same amount of power.
Ah, you just explained why there is less oxygen per gulp.

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-22-2009 08:08 PM  8 years agoPost 18
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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All I'm worried about if that new Vibration I'm getting, I can't make sense on it since I enriched the low needle !!
Jeffery, if you are outside of the power band of the engine nothing you do to the needles will help.

Why don't you list your specs on this heli?

Blades
gear ratio
total weight of heli
engine = G260 Hanson modified by Toxic Al (should this turn 13K RPM?) What does Al say?

Ace
What could be more fun?

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03-22-2009 08:44 PM  8 years agoPost 19
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South​Carolina

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Ace, sorry dude, you may be an engineer, but the air does not have less oxygen in it just because it is warmer.....hate to burst your bubble, but you are wrong on this one.
So I guess if I go to the north pole I will have more breathable oxygen because the air is colder.......not. I am sorry to say that being an engineer does not account for noing everything about everything. Now if you are in warmer air at say.....12,000 feet asl, your statement would be correct.....because there IS less oxygen with increased altitude.....

Sorry to go off topic, but blatently WRONG statements get under my skin.

jgoodsell ....does the engine start up pretty easily? How much time do you have on it, do you think maybe your ring may be worn and you are losing some compression?

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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03-22-2009 10:12 PM  8 years agoPost 20
munkey nuts

rrApprentice

wales uk

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shuttle pilot

i have found some information about oxygen/ air.im no engineer or scientist so i may be wrong to.

The simplest and most common way to report the amount of oxygen in air is to express it relative to the other compounds in the air. Oxygen in the Earth’s atmosphere has remained constant for several hundred years at 20.95%. This means that exactly 20.95% of the molecules in the air are O2 molecules. It doesn’t matter if you make this measurement at sea level or in the mountains of Logan, UT. The percentage (or fraction) of the molecules that are O2 molecules stays the same.

Air also expands with increasing temperature. The temperature effect is determined by the absolute temperature in Kelvin. Room temperature is about 300 Kelvin (27 C; 80 F), so if the temperature increases by 3 degrees C (6 F), the air expands by 1%, or from 20.95 to 20.75% O2.

(quote)your statement would be correct.....because there IS less oxygen with increased altitude..... (quote)

this appears to be wrong!

(quote)Ace, sorry dude, you may be an engineer, but the air does not have less oxygen in it just because it is warmer.....hate to burst your bubble, but you are wrong on this one.(quote)

this also appears to be wrong!

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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Engine (G26) bogging down
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