RunRyder RC
 3  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 2457 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterBergen R/C Helicopters › bergen sport model
03-20-2009 02:52 AM  8 years agoPost 1
main rotor

rrNovice

Pomona NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hello everyone. Been in this hobby for 10+ years , but put it on the back burner for the last 3. How out dated is my gear? bergen sport with belt driven tail and stock zenoah metal can muffler with wood blades. JR XP8103 8 channel heli radio and futaba gy401 gyro all analog servos . Had it out last week and as always clockwise circles are a full right rudder chore. Is this the nature of the beast??

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-20-2009 09:38 PM  8 years agoPost 2
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages,​Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

"Out of date" is a matter of opinion...... to me, your gear sounds fine. But, what servo are you using with that 401 ??

Your problem sounds like it's how your machine is set up.

Your best bet is to find a knowledgeable person in your area that can lend a hand in going over your machine.......

From the sounds of it, I would classify you as a "newbie" ?? That's not an insult, just making an observation based upon the nature of your question.....

Also, don't let anyone talk you into spending a ton of money for "digital servos" , "carbon blades", "drive shaft upgrade" or any of the high end upgrades because frankly, you won't need them at this stage of the game......

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-20-2009 09:56 PM  8 years agoPost 3
v22chap

rrKey Veteran

Granger, Indiana

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ditto what Jaun said
The Bergen birds don't out date ... matter of fact from the bottom except for the bottom frames and engine mount yours is almost exactly like the newest bird they have .
I can't remember for sure ,,but somewhere down through the belt stage they changed the to a bottom motor mount ,, but they still carry the parts for your belt drive .

The only thing that has changed is the tail rotor bell crank . They did increase the size of its bearing mount area and if you are the orginal owner contact Chris and I think he will update you for free ... .
There maybe a few other things but nothing that will effect how it flies

What RPM are you running and what is the degree of positive collective you are running ... you might be pulling to much collective for the RPM you are running also and low RPM would let the clutch slip thus the tail has not got good control .

How far out on the tail rotor servo arm are you connected ??

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-21-2009 01:44 PM  8 years agoPost 4
main rotor

rrNovice

Pomona NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Im running 8deg+ , but i dont know what rpm. The motor bogs down a little at full pitch , thats why i was considering a tuned pipe for a little more power. Its a stock g23 and seems to be just adequate for 8deg on this heli. The tail pitch slider is using the full range of the tail shaft so its not a mechanical problem. Also using futaba 9205 on the tail and 9202 everywhere else. The gyro is a GY501

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-21-2009 04:13 PM  8 years agoPost 5
v22chap

rrKey Veteran

Granger, Indiana

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You need to get a tach or around someone that has one as it sounds like you are not up to RPM ,,, my little newer G23 ran + - 10 pitch and I could do a rolling circle with no problems ,,no engine bog and it was running the stock muffler also and with stock air filter .

Do you have the stock aircleaner on it ??? If so make sure that it isn't plugged with dirt and restricting the air intake thus making low RPM .

Also how far out on the 9205 servo arm do you connect up at ??

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-21-2009 05:39 PM  8 years agoPost 6
main rotor

rrNovice

Pomona NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yea stock air cleaner and its clean. The horn is centered (straight down) and the tail push rod is .425 from the center of the tail servo out put shaft. The tail slider is centered on the tail shaft and the push rod ball is in the hole closest to the blades.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-21-2009 06:55 PM  8 years agoPost 7
v22chap

rrKey Veteran

Granger, Indiana

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

.425 " sounds about right for the tail servo connect point and the torque of the 9205 seem to be enough that I doubt it could be stalling out .

I still believe your RPM is probably to low to have tail authority . You need to have around 1650 RPM at hover with 690 to 720 blades

If you don't have a tach or a friend with one ,,,try this .

1) set your throttle stick to 1/2 stick position
2) set your blade angle to between 5 or 6 degrees at this stick position and + 10 at full stick position .

3) then go out start it up and try to lift off into a hover

a) if you lift off after 1/2 stick ,,,, increase your throttle curve until you lift off at 1/2 stick and this should get you closer .

b) if you lift off before 1/2 stick with this setup ,,,, we really need to call Chris

One more idea came to mind .... can you take a picture of your tail rotor area from straight up above it with both tail blades pushed forward and post it ???

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-22-2009 04:02 AM  8 years agoPost 8
main rotor

rrNovice

Pomona NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I know it hovers at 5deg , but i think the rpm is low also. Im not sure of the lenght of the main blades i will have to measure them. I had a set of carbon blades the same length as the wood ones i currently use and the rpm was much higher judging by the sound the engine made. The only problem was the tail shaft broke the first time i used them and the pitch slider smacked into one blade and ruined it!! Seems bergen shortened the length of the tail shaft to correct this problem. The tail seems to have good power to the right in a hover but not in flight , wonder if the gyro is countering it somehow??

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-22-2009 02:58 PM  8 years agoPost 9
v22chap

rrKey Veteran

Granger, Indiana

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It might be the gyro ,but more likely the setup of the gyro is causing it .. I had a similar thing happen sat . helping a friends / friend get his bird going .
The way he had setup the 401,, the pitch slider was not physically going full stroke on the tail shaft ... nor was the servo itself .He had the limit pot set way low and the ATV's in the TX for the rudder way high ,, so the tail was really twitchy and the gain ch was set way low on the percentage (15 % )trying to stop the twichy tail .

We set the gyro limit pot back to the 100 percent area , rudder atv's back down to a good starting point 50 / 50 and raised the gain ch percentasge to a round 70/ 50 % and then centered the servo arm and moved the connecting point out enough to get full throw on the pitch slider (on this radio / servo setup it took .634 " to get the right amount of throw ,,, readjusted the tail rotor control rod to hover good in rate mode and now he has proper tail authority and no twitchy tail .

But this really don't sound like your problem .If it works well in a hover it should work fine in FF

Go through the below check list and answer if you want ,,,but I bet one or two of the below problems you have .

1) do you always turn on the system with the gyro switch in HH mode and does the light on the gyro stay on solid or does it blink ????

2) do you have the gyro setup like we did above ??

3) can you switch to rate mode and the tail holds in a hover pretty good ???

4) where is your limit gain pot set on the gyro ??

5) where is your delay pot set on the gyro ???

6) are your 2- tail rotor control ball links cut to the right length according to the manual ???

7) can you center the tail slider on the shaft and move both tail rotor blades forward parallel to the tail boom and can you look down from above them and see about 20 mm seperation between the blade tips ??

8) are both tail rotor blades running in the same plane ,,, can you see just one tail blade when running it or do you see two seperate ones (kind of like tracking the main blades )

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-22-2009 03:46 PM  8 years agoPost 10
main rotor

rrNovice

Pomona NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I never use the heading hold mode , just the rate mode. the tail blades are tracking dead on and the links are cut proper. im not sure what the gain is but it doesent oscillate in a hover. Its a gy501 so it dont have a blinking light. I'll look into the delay setting as im not sure what that is. Thankyou for your help so far

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-22-2009 03:57 PM  8 years agoPost 11
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages,​Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I never use the heading hold mode , just the rate mode.
I'm not familiar with the 501 but I can tell you that the 401 MUST be initialized in the Heading Hold mode at startup.....otherwise, the gyro cannot determine "center" on the servo.... Once initialized, then you switch over to "standard" mode if that is your preference....

If that's the same with a 501 and you're not powering it up in HH mode first, that would be the cause of your troubles....

By the way, in your first post you said you were using a 401 gyro...... then you say you're using a 501...... Which is it ??

Also, why not use Heading Hold mode ??

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-22-2009 04:30 PM  8 years agoPost 12
v22chap

rrKey Veteran

Granger, Indiana

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I too am not familar with the 501 ,,, but I bet his problem is right there in not starting up in HH . I just looked up the manual online and it states to start it up always in HH ,,, just like the 401 ... must of not been till the 601 that they dropped that setup.

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-22-2009 08:16 PM  8 years agoPost 13
main rotor

rrNovice

Pomona NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I did origonally say it was a 401 but its not. Deffinatly a 501. I will look into starting it up in the HH mode. Thanks for the help

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-22-2009 09:01 PM  8 years agoPost 14
v22chap

rrKey Veteran

Granger, Indiana

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There may be other issues in the 501 setup you have also ... hopefully someone familar with them will chime in

Good luck ,, hope the starting in HH does the trick .

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-22-2009 09:08 PM  8 years agoPost 15
main rotor

rrNovice

Pomona NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

these are the directions. It doesent say to start in the HH mode . It specifically says to start in the normal. I dont even have the remote switching fuction hooked up .

Flight Adjustments
1) Turn on the transmitter power, then turn on the receiver power.
- Never move the model or rudder stick during the 5 seconds the
"INIT" display blinks.
2) Hover in the Normal mode and adjust the rudder neutral position.
- In the AVCS mode, the rudder neutral position is automatically set,
and linkage changes cannot be verified. First, perform rudder neutral
adjustment in the Normal mode.
- Move the transmitter trim lever and reset the neutral position. When
the rudder servo neutral position has changed considerably, readjust
the linkage.

I checked the gain today and it was 30% I lowered it to 25 and the tail power is better

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-22-2009 11:58 PM  8 years agoPost 16
v22chap

rrKey Veteran

Granger, Indiana

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

On the top of page 8 it cautions that when the rudder nuetral position is changed by the linkage it needs to be started in AVCS and this is where I read into it that it needs to be started in AVCS or you can flip the switch on and off for 1 second to memorize the nuetral position .... So yes I believe it does have to be atleast first time setup started in AVCS (HH )

And on page 23 and 24 it talks about nuetral trim in normal mode and AVCS ... and it talks about what to do if it is turned on in AVCS mode .... it don't come right out and say it but I believe that you can start it up both ways ,,but it is better to start it up in HH .
I checked the gain today and it was 30% I lowered it to 25 and the tail power is better
This don't sound right as they talk about in the manual to first set it up with HH at 70 % and rate at 40%

So all you are doing lowering the gain is giving more control back to the TX but you have less gyro control .. so yes it would make the tail have more authority .
It says that if your gain is set above 50 % it operates in HH and when set below 50% it operates in rate ... so it looks to me like you have made it rate mode in both switch settings .

1) do you have all the automatic tail helps in your TX turned off ???

2) what TX are you using ,,,that seems to make a difference the way you set it up also ... ???

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-23-2009 01:32 AM  8 years agoPost 17
main rotor

rrNovice

Pomona NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Im using a jr xp8103. I will have to look into the tail help stuff and make sure its off. I will let you know asap. Thanks again for all the tips

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-23-2009 01:43 AM  8 years agoPost 18
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages,​Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

main rotor....

Your best bet might be to find an experienced pilot in your area and have him give you a hand with the setup...... that way, he can explain things as you go along and you'll get actual "hands on" experience......

It's very difficult to resolve issues such as this over a keyboard.....

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-23-2009 05:35 PM  8 years agoPost 19
v22chap

rrKey Veteran

Granger, Indiana

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It's very difficult to resolve issues such as this over a keyboard
Agreed ,,, and especially when you are not familar with the unit .

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-24-2009 12:51 AM  8 years agoPost 20
main rotor

rrNovice

Pomona NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ok thanks for your help. one other question ,Im using 710mm main blades is that OK?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 2457 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterBergen R/C Helicopters › bergen sport model
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 3  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, November 23 - 5:45 am - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online