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MSH Protos, Mini Protos
› Scary Incident with Protos Today
03-20-2009 12:13 AM  8 years agoPost 1
blbills

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Provo, UT

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I put another 5 consecutive flight on my Protos today. I let the motor cool down for approx. 5 minutes between flights.

On flight 3 I was doing an inverted climbout when the motor just died for approx. 2 seconds (it felt like an eternity). I thought that for sure I was going to crash but at the last second before I hit the ground the power came back and I recovered.

I continued to fly the next two batteries (a bit more conservatively) with no further incidents.

What would cause something like this? I'm running the stock motor with an Align 60A ESC. I forgot to check to see if I had a brown-out b4 I unplugged the battery but I don't think so as I still had control of the heli.

Brian

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03-20-2009 12:21 AM  8 years agoPost 2
TJinGuy

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Socorro, NM - USA

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Sounds like the esc shut down. Maybe it was from heat. All the escs I have seen shut down will come right back online when the problem goes away. For example when my friend gets toward the end of his flight on his little 3d plane and does a hard, long pull ... the esc sometimes cuts out from low voltage. All he has to do to get it back is to zero the throttle and everything is fine again.

On the motor cooling down thing, I think there is almost zero benefit to that. The motor most likely reaches its peak operating temp within the first minute of flight. Then there is the fan that draws air through itself constantly when it is running. So I believe it peaks in the first minute and holds a temp until you shut it down again. Starting with a cold motor likely delays the motor from reaching the peak temp by only a few seconds. Anyhow that is just my thoughts.

- Chris

Team New Mexico
TJinTech

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03-20-2009 12:25 AM  8 years agoPost 3
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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Same thing was happening to RavenHyper50 on here with his protos. I think it'd turned out that it was something to do with the serpentine belt building up static. Don't quote me on that though. If RH50 was around I'm sure he'd be able to tell you how to fix it right away.

Seems like it'd always happen to him when he was really banging the sticks around too. Anyways, it might be worth asking in the MSH forum.

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03-20-2009 12:45 AM  8 years agoPost 4
Gyronut

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Martinsville In.

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+1 for the heat issue...

Might want to get a heavier duty ESC..

Rick

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03-20-2009 01:03 AM  8 years agoPost 5
bstock

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Easton, MD.

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Were you running a 2.4 Spektrum RX?

I sounds like a static issue... with the RX rebooting itself. Have you grounded the boom to the frame?

That is a known need to do fix, when running the Spektrum RXs on the Protos (but not needed for the Futaba 2.4 RX).

You can also put silicone on the belt... that is also known to help with static.

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03-20-2009 01:53 AM  8 years agoPost 6
Ravenhyper50

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Canada's Capital

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Same thing was happening to RavenHyper50 on here with his protos. I think it'd turned out that it was something to do with the serpentine belt building up static. Don't quote me on that though. If RH50 was around I'm sure he'd be able to tell you how to fix it right away.

Seems like it'd always happen to him when he was really banging the sticks around too.
It happened to me a lot! My Protos was doing the cut out thing always when I pushed it. It turned out to be a worn out or faulty one way bearing. The bearing would just let go, then grab again few seconds later. Scary stuff indeed!

The solution was found by process of elimination.
First did the grounding mod (wire from boom to motor mount or frame)
Lubed belt with silicone.
Tried 2 different brands ESC
Two different motors stock & scorpion 1000kv

At first I did not think it was the one way bearing. No noise or weird sounds coming from it. Then one day I was hovering real close to me did a pitch pump and one way let go but this time I can hear the motor still spinning. It was hard to hear over the blade noise, but that was the problem!

The sign of this bearing failure problem looks just like a lock out!
Try grounding everything and if you still have the cut out problem, change out the bearing. Worked for me

Cheers,
Raven

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03-20-2009 02:54 AM  8 years agoPost 7
blbills

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Provo, UT

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Thanks for all your swift replies.

I am running 2.4 and I have siliconed and grounded my boom.

Not sure about the ESC, I could try another. Not sure that it's a heat thing though as I have flown this heli much harder consecutively before with no issues whatsoever. It was almost at the beginning of the pack too.

I have filed a flat spot on the motor shaft so I know that the pinion isn't slipping but I do need to keep an eye out on those one way bearings. Any idea on how to tell if they are bad? You'd think that it would do it more than what it is. I've got about 20 flights on this heli and this is the first time it's happened.

Brian

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03-20-2009 02:59 AM  8 years agoPost 8
Flying Brian

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St. Clairsville,​Ohio

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Turn off your overload protection.

"I just don't Listen" "

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03-20-2009 03:32 AM  8 years agoPost 9
blbills

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Provo, UT

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What is overload protection?

Brian

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03-20-2009 06:17 AM  8 years agoPost 10
Ravenhyper50

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Canada's Capital

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Any idea on how to tell if they are bad? You'd think that it would do it more than what it is. I've got about 20 flights on this heli and this is the first time it's happened.
I don't know any way to tell if its worn out. I even let a friend look at the pinion/oneway and he could not tell it was faulty when comparing to his new pinion.

It seems to work for a while, then just let go.
20 flights is about how often it would happen to me.
Sometimes I would get over 50 flights before cut out and other times its every 5-10 flights. I noticed on mine that it would happen more frequent in the colder weather.

Hope its just that easy of a fix for you.
Since it was only one time incident, it could of been a number of things.
Next time it /if happens again, don't forget to check for the blinking light.

Cheers,
Raven

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03-20-2009 08:11 AM  8 years agoPost 11
mchammer

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California,USA

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You may want to check your speed controll mounting.If you use double sided tape on the align it can sag and cause the heatsinks to short out the speed control. I will try to get some pics up of the one that failed on me.

Peace Through Superior Firepower!!!

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03-20-2009 08:15 AM  8 years agoPost 12
mchammer

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California,USA

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I had an align 100 amp speed cotrol burn up on me.

The inside of the control is assembled in such a way that if you mount it with foam double sided mounting tape it will eventually cause it to short out to the rear heatsink.You must gently strap it with a zip tie or velcro strap to support the front if you mount it with foam tape.

You can see in the middle pic where the rear metal heatsink will sag and short out the solder points where the red and black wire are connected to the speed control.The only thing holding this thing together is the black heatshrink on the two ends and it will easily flex with just the weight of the speed control. A crash would make it happen even easier.

Peace Through Superior Firepower!!!

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03-20-2009 03:24 PM  8 years agoPost 13
blbills

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Provo, UT

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I have checked the ESC and it looks OK. Plus, if the esc went out wouldn't I lose control as I'm using the internal BEC?

Brian

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03-20-2009 10:40 PM  8 years agoPost 14
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

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BEC is a seperate component of an esc in relation to throttle output, unless of course it ignited, then everthing goes.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-21-2009 02:46 AM  8 years agoPost 15
blbills

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Provo, UT

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So if I understand what you're saying, if the esc goes out even though it's all one unit that I will still have control of the heli?

I was always under the impression that others ran a seperate BEC for that reason...that if the esc goes they still have the external bec to get the heli down.

Brian

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03-21-2009 03:55 AM  8 years agoPost 16
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

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people run seperate BECs as some ESCs with built in BECs have less output in voltage ability or less amperage, plus the fact that if the esc burns up bad in flight, yes the BEC will usually suffer damage as well causing a crash etc... With ESCs in general you get what you pay for, buy a cheap no name esc expect that you are taking a risk imho.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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04-01-2009 12:19 AM  8 years agoPost 17
dayotte

rrApprentice

RR SUCKS ASS

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...

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04-01-2009 01:37 PM  8 years agoPost 18
gorn

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Western Australia

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Ive had my Scorpion motor AND Z Power motor both cut out recently.
wasnt static, it was LVC on the Kontronic.
Im guessing that though, but it only happens with my 2 oldest packs when pushed hard.
2 New packs, never happens.
Check your packs health Id say.

For the love of the hobby

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04-13-2009 04:41 PM  8 years agoPost 19
blbills

rrKey Veteran

Provo, UT

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I hate to resurface this thread but the issue has not gone away.

I swapped out ESC's and on the second flight the heli cutout again!?!

I called up a good friend of mine who has extensive knowledge of the Protos and he had something very interesting to say. I haven't really heard this on the forums. He said that the stock motor is SH!T. He thinks it is the motor. He's running a Jazz ESC and the same exact issue was happening to him.

Can anyone else that is having similiar issues please chime in? I would just hate to crash this thing due to this stupid problem.

Brian

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04-13-2009 05:23 PM  8 years agoPost 20
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

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Your batteries are to blame would be my guess.
My 2 oldest packs both do what you describe.
I have the Kontronic, Z Power Z20, and did the same with my Scorpion.
The kontronic senses low voltage as do pretty well every esc around, and it shuts off til voltage recovers.
I know its this (for my case anyway), as my 2 new packs do not have this issue.

For the love of the hobby

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