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Other › 600 Flybar Paddles on a 450!!!
03-19-2009 01:39 AM  8 years agoPost 1
Craig9080

rrApprentice

Holland, MA USA

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Hey Everyone,
So this past weekend i met up with a guy who goes to my school and we flew out helis (I have a beam, he has a rex450SE) for about an hour. His was remarkably smooth and VERY stable, it even looked like a 50 nitro in how it flew. So after he lands for the 2nd time i notice that his paddles are HUDGE. Turns out they are for a rex 600, and he has flybar weights to boot. I had no clue that this would have made the heli as stable and smooth flying as it did. I imagine it would take an hour for it to loop (and his servos are probably working pretty hard), but for a person like myself, who still feels uncomfortable without flybar weights, it looked like a good idea. If any of you have heard about this (or done it) post with your opinions or experience, and if you haven't, chime in anyway.

"I hover like a Pro"

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03-19-2009 01:53 AM  8 years agoPost 2
Eagle2bravo

rrVeteran

Out flying somewhere

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Wow, I'd like to see a pic of that! I would think the roll rate would be in slow motion. It must hover almost hands off....

T-rex 600n super pro , Trex 450 se, Gaui 200, Trex 500, Blade cx, . "If ya plant corn, ya get c

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03-19-2009 02:48 AM  8 years agoPost 3
airboss

rrElite Veteran

OC ,california

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my synergy uses a 5mm flybar and large SAB paddles. when I switched to smaller paddles CY stubz and a 4mm flybar the heli was less stable and more difficult to fly.

Urukay HPS3 KSE 700 HPS3

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03-19-2009 02:56 AM  8 years agoPost 4
holzback

rrKey Veteran

noblesville IN​United States

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dang, that dude needs to live a little

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03-19-2009 03:57 AM  8 years agoPost 5
BJames111

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San Diego,​California

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It would be an immense amount of drag on the rotor head, plan on it feeling like losing 20% of the power.

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03-19-2009 04:07 AM  8 years agoPost 6
deafheliflyer

rrKey Veteran

Arizona

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yo

I agree with BJames...

I like my helicopters without expo, VERY twitchy ... makes me feel "connected" to my birds!!!

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

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03-19-2009 04:08 AM  8 years agoPost 7
Craig9080

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Holland, MA USA

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The surface area increase is only about 6-8%, and the rotational mass is increased. The Power drop shouldnt be even near 20%. Dont have the exact math on this right now, but after a 7 min flight in idle-up, his packs and motor where almost cool to the touch, and it was 50F outside with no humidity.

"I hover like a Pro"

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03-19-2009 04:11 AM  8 years agoPost 8
BJames111

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San Diego,​California

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well, by all means, go ahead an put 50 size paddles on your 450...it's YOUR helicopter@!! LOL.

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03-19-2009 04:12 AM  8 years agoPost 9
Craig9080

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Holland, MA USA

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That it is, but now that you got me thinking, im going to go crunch the numbers and figure out how much more force is required to run the bigger paddles

"I hover like a Pro"

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03-19-2009 05:30 AM  8 years agoPost 10
artimus

rrKey Veteran

Buckley WA

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Why not just fly a Blade CX2????Take the weights off and learn to fly the heli.... you wont have to relearn how to fly it and send more money on parts.....

Fly Hard......Team Viagra

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03-19-2009 06:00 AM  8 years agoPost 11
chopper_crazy

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Delphos, Ohio

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well, by all means, go ahead an put 50 size paddles on your 450...it's YOUR helicopter@!! LOL.
I think somebody wants to sell some parts

It's a complex, costly, glow powered anti-gravity machine!

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03-19-2009 10:07 AM  8 years agoPost 12
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

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this "person" who had these UFO sized paddles, was his name Manny by chance?

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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03-19-2009 10:25 AM  8 years agoPost 13
TOSH

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UK.Peterborough

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The surface area increase is only about 6-8%,
There`s no way that can be right.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-19-2009 03:12 PM  8 years agoPost 14
artimus

rrKey Veteran

Buckley WA

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Another Manny Mod? If so you cant use it....it probably been copyrighted. You'll have to pay a licence fee to have that on your heli

Fly Hard......Team Viagra

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03-19-2009 04:30 PM  8 years agoPost 15
Jag72

rrProfessor

South of Boston

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LOL...

this "person" who had these UFO sized paddles, was his name Manny by chance?
That's A GREAT one Shawn....lol...

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03-19-2009 06:00 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Craig9080

rrApprentice

Holland, MA USA

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Calculations

Trex 450 flybar paddles FRONTAL SA (CF) (50mm * 4.3) = 215mm^2
7.8g

Trex 600 flybar paddles FRONTAL SA (CF) (80mm * 7.5) = 600mm^2
12g

Drag coefficient is 0.05 (standard heli "wing" [blade] coefficient)

Fd = (p(u^2)Cd * A)/2

Fd is the force of drag, which is by definition the force component in the direction of the flow velocity
p is the mass density of the fluid
u is the velocity of the object relative to the fluid
A is the reference area, in our case this is the frontal Surface
Cd is the drag coefficient

p = 1.2kg/m^3 (air at 20C) = 1.2g/mm (thank God for the metric system)
u = 2200rpm and flybar paddle length from shaft is 170mm = Pi(170*2) * 2200 = 39145mm/sec (or 39.146m/sec or 87.56mph)

A = 215 for the 450 and 600 for the 600

Cd = .05

Fd(450) = (1.2(87.56^2).05 * 215)/2 = 49450g/mm

Fd(600) = (1.2(87.56^2).05 * 600)/2 = 138001g/mm

BUT

The 600 paddles are 1.54 times heavier so with inertial dampening of the drag effect you get an effectual resistance of 89611g/mm

Ok, so first, please check my calculations and logic. If you have any questions, please ask.

Conclusion: Through this data we see that the flybar paddles will require the motors total work load to be increased by a factor similar to that of the initial 450 flybar paddle. For the stability, its worth it for me.

Yes, my initial estimate to the size increase was wrong, and some of my units might be wrong here, but since they are all relative to one another, the comparison between the paddles is correct by my logic. Hope to hear from you guys soon.

"I hover like a Pro"

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03-19-2009 06:23 PM  8 years agoPost 17
TOSH

rrElite Veteran

UK.Peterborough

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No worries, you were only about 570% out. Shouldn`t make much difference to your calcs

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-19-2009 06:23 PM  8 years agoPost 18
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

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I think you have to step back and look at the big picture.

The more mass on the flybar, the more resistent the flybar is to change. So yes, It will make it more stable, but....

Why, don't you just add more weight and put 335mm blades on it, and slow the headspeed down?

Old Guys Rule!

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03-19-2009 07:07 PM  8 years agoPost 19
Craig9080

rrApprentice

Holland, MA USA

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Zaneman007,
Its a thought. I just brought this up because it stuck me as odd and wanted to see what people thought. Personally, i put some flybar weights on my Beam and am quite happy with it.

TOSH,
You dont even use flybars!! lol

"I hover like a Pro"

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03-19-2009 07:15 PM  8 years agoPost 20
Riq

rrKey Veteran

ND

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You guys are looking at this all wrong.

I was using a vbar on my 600n, but I was wrong too.

I need to put 450 paddles on my 600s!

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