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HelicopterMain Discussion › To Flybar, or to not flybar.. :)
03-18-2009 10:13 PM  8 years agoPost 1
deafheliflyer

rrKey Veteran

Arizona

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Im interested in converting my T500 to flybarless.....

I have done a search on this forum, it doesnt directly answer my questions..

1. If you do not have any help at the local field, where is a good place to start as far as setup and trimming for flight??

2. Is it hard to make the transition to flybarless as far as "tx controls ??

3. Is the performance THAT MUCH better? In what ways?

4. Someone I respect who flies very well has tried flybarless (Taipan on RunRyder) and couldnt get it to work correctly.. How hard is it to set up a flybarless system?

5. Is a laptop required or can most adjustments be made at home on a PC?

6. Flybarless seems very complicated... There is soo much information and I just dont know where to start.

any additional information would be APPRECIATED..

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

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03-18-2009 11:06 PM  8 years agoPost 2
abc123

rrNovice

va, usa

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Performance wise, I think it should feel about the same, depends on the helicopter and the flyberless gyro. However it should provide better flight times, less complicated head(less parts to break), and less drag. You also have endless tunning capabilities.

As for how hard they are to setup, from what I read and heard, they are quite user friendly.

For question 2, I interpret that your saying "will it take time to get use to the controls?". Flybarless gyros like the mikado virtual flybar, are called virtual flybars for a reason. They try to make you think that the helicopter actually has a flybar even though it doesn't. You aren't going to feel much of a difference and from time to time, your going to forget that it doesn't have a flybar until you land it.

Just an extra for you, rchelimag just came out with issue #34, which includes an article about how to convert the head of a trex 500 from flybar to flybarless.

Hope that helps!

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03-18-2009 11:28 PM  8 years agoPost 3
deafheliflyer

rrKey Veteran

Arizona

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hi

abc123

No offense but, have you personally flown a flybarless system? From your posting, you only based your post on what you "heard"

thanks for the info on rchelimag, I need to get one!!!

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

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03-18-2009 11:29 PM  8 years agoPost 4
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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Flying performance can change dramatically as there's much less inertia in the rotor system to overcome so you can make the cyclic insanely snappy IF you choose to do so. Thats one of those things you'll work on as you learn it.

If you want to tinker at the field you're going to need a laptop.

Transitioning isn't a problem, you just fly it like any other helicopter.

The VBar already has files for most of the popular helicopters that the work is done for you, you just send the file to the VBar and verify its all working correctly.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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03-18-2009 11:31 PM  8 years agoPost 5
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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03-18-2009 11:45 PM  8 years agoPost 6
Joe90

rrApprentice

Quebec, Canada

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Hi

1: Flybarless Manufacturer web site and forum. They have extensive info on how to setup their products. They even have some preset setup for most popular the heli you can find.

2: Easy, those systems are now sorted out you will find that the heli is doing what you ask for. Less sensitive to wind also.

3: 15% more pitch. Flip and roll rate much more constant in flipping loop for example. You can add almost 2 deg of collective and still not bog the engine. Fly faster too

4: Not as hard as many would led you beleive if you follow manufacturer recommendations. Some people search to have a perfect system and there is no such system, flybar heli included.

5: You can do everything at home but a laptop is more convenient in the first few flights. After that you forget it is there execpt when you fly friends heli with flybar...

6: Best info found on manufacturer web site they are the ONE to ask first. It is relatively new and many peoples are in their learning curve.

7: where to start: I would suggest looking attentively at videos Mikado and AC3X equipped heli are to one to watch and compare to same setup with flybar. After that if you find that these heli are flying better then downloading, READING, instructions from differents manufacturers. They will tell wich servo are recommended for their systems how to setup the head and how to tune parameters. Please read and try to understand as much as you can before stepping into.

I did change last year and now I see a flybar as outdated like mechanical gyro. This is an evolution of the hobby

It is new technology and there is a learning curve to it. Something like when you started doing heli but to a lesser extent.

On a final note some peoples did return to flybar but it seems to be a minority. Others are converting their whole fleet.

Hope this help.

Have fun !

Michel

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03-18-2009 11:46 PM  8 years agoPost 7
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

North Denver,​Colorado

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When having flybarless is the price of a flybar, I'll be in.

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03-18-2009 11:49 PM  8 years agoPost 8
altima1779

rrKey Veteran

Toledo, oh u.s

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Do It!! I converted my t500 to a v-bar system and with a little help from the guys on runryder it is flying like a dream. ( no local help)

It is very fast and snappy, in fact it is by far the most crisp and quick responding heli i have ever flown.

I messed around with the programming too much in the begining, now i am basically back to the preset trex 500 file and it is flying awesome. I am flying mine with a crappy tail servo and i can tail slide all day long with no blow out.

It is best to have a laptop so that you can make changes at the field, if you do not have a laptop you can always get the control panel. I actually bought a used laptop off e-bay for $200 and it is the perfect size and works great for my needs.

I feel they fly the same other than you can make it as aggressive as you want. I was flying my t500 in 20+ MPH winds and it was handling like a much bigger heli.

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03-18-2009 11:50 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Cul-tech

rrApprentice

Naperville, IL

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Your Questions,
#1 The flybarless section of Runryder.

#2 No, you make your TX dumb and set it for 1 servo swash control. The flybarless system will take care of the mixing.

#3 You gain about 10% more power and can really crank up the control rates.

#4 It can get difficult, especially if you run into a problem. It took me about a month and a half to get my Skookum going well. There was a point where I was about to put the flybar back on. Now it works well and I really enjoy it. Some people get it right the first time.

#5 A laptop would be nice but I didn't have one. I would make a test hover on my driveway then bring it in the house and connect it to the PC to make adjustments. Now that it is done I rarely plug it in.

#6 It is complicated and there is not a lot of info out there yet. You are wise to be careful in your decision. I did mine over the winter so I could take my time and not have to rush the process because everyone was out flying.

Would I do it again? Yes..

Good Luck
Mike

I Enjoy the Challenges of Rotary Flight....

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03-19-2009 01:00 AM  8 years agoPost 10
deafheliflyer

rrKey Veteran

Arizona

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hi

This is for Vbar users..

How accurate is the "Preset T500 parameters" >>> Did you have to do much tweaking for it initially?

Thanks
Michael

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

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03-19-2009 01:07 AM  8 years agoPost 11
altima1779

rrKey Veteran

Toledo, oh u.s

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I tweaked mine to death but i am now flying with pretty much the preset file and it is flying awesome. Of course you will need to tweak your gains to suite your type of cyclic and tail servos.

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03-19-2009 01:08 AM  8 years agoPost 12
Mapleleafs

rrVeteran

Ontario, Canada

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Flybarless is great.

a)Makes the heli fly so much better
b)Affected very little by the wind
c)Way more power
d)you feel one with the heli
e)cheaper to crash

f)you look badass having no flybar....

oh and the Trex 500 is so easy to convert and is a great heli to do your first FBL conversion on.

Vbar Trex 700N, Vbar MSH Protos 500, Vbar Logo 400

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03-19-2009 04:05 AM  8 years agoPost 13
deafheliflyer

rrKey Veteran

Arizona

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hi

WOW!! seems a lot of benefits........

Hmmm I Need to read up on it more

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

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03-19-2009 04:10 AM  8 years agoPost 14
BJames111

rrElite Veteran

San Diego,​California

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I was able to "borrow" a complete V-Bar conversion for my Trex 600. In all fairness I didn't have a lot of time to tweak the settings, but I decided that it wasnt for me, and here's why:

1. I don't own a laptop
2. I don't like tuning my helicopter on a computer (I guess call me old fashioned)
3. Power was fantastic, but cyclic was strange. I guess it's because if in a Manuver the headspeed tapers off, you expect the cyclic to slow down as well. Not the case with the V-bar. cyclic stayed ultra fast even if the headspeed drops.

I put the flybar back on, and I'll probably stick with it for a while. If you like to tinker and tweak on your setup, you'll probably like it. I'm certain I could have gotten used to it, but I'm already used to a fly-barred heli...

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03-19-2009 10:37 AM  8 years agoPost 15
TOSH

rrElite Veteran

UK.Peterborough

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BJames111
In all fairness I didn't have a lot of time to tweak the settings,
That and your dislike of computers were your downfall.l wish you`d had more time.

You can get a reasonable setup fairly quick but a really good setup can take some time, lots of reading and plenty of help from the guys on here. Once you`ve got that setup there`s no going back and your other helis become redundant.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-19-2009 01:32 PM  8 years agoPost 16
Joe90

rrApprentice

Quebec, Canada

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There are still people swearing by their 1940 engined motorcycle...

Dont waste too much time here, you can get opinions not much more. facts are really hard to get here. Even having facts you may like it or not depending on yours skills and preferences. There is tradeofs like everything in this earth.

A flybar is a mechanical gyro wich use engine power to do its thing. Is is VERY difficult to understand how it works

It is because it is everywhere that you get away with it ''easily''.
I ran into phasing, delta offset problems with flybar as well.

Just look at people who are doing f3c how hard they are tring to do what they want from it.

My 2 cents

Michel

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03-19-2009 01:46 PM  8 years agoPost 17
KevinB

rrKey Veteran

Saskatoon,​Saskatchewan, Canada

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Just a note..... with the Vbar, you can get the Vbar Control Panel which allows you to change every setting that you could with a laptop in an easy to use scrolling menu system. Easier to see in the sun than a laptop screen too.

KevinB

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03-19-2009 02:29 PM  8 years agoPost 18
BJames111

rrElite Veteran

San Diego,​California

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That and your dislike of computers were your downfall.l wish you`d had more time.

You can get a reasonable setup fairly quick but a really good setup can take some time, lots of reading and plenty of help from the guys on here. Once you`ve got that setup there`s no going back and your other helis become redundant.
It's not that I dont like computers! Its that I don't have a laptop to take with me, and it was very time consuming going home, and back to the field to adjust...LOL.

It had some strange tendencies in the air, which from watching other v-barred heli's could have been fixed, but I didn't know what to do to "fix" them.

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03-19-2009 04:39 PM  8 years agoPost 19
TOSH

rrElite Veteran

UK.Peterborough

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BJames111
It's not that I dont like computers! Its that I don't have a laptop to take with me, and it was very time consuming going home, and back to the field to adjust...LOL.
That`s just how l started. Luckily my youngest daughter did very good at school ( gets it from her mom ) so l got her a laptop.

Flybars. Who needs `em.

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03-19-2009 11:06 PM  8 years agoPost 20
deafheliflyer

rrKey Veteran

Arizona

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hi

Wish me luck..

Vbar and T500 head from Mikado ordered thru Readyheli Should be here next week..

Anyone have pictures of T500 with Vbar electronic layout?

Michael

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

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HelicopterMain Discussion › To Flybar, or to not flybar.. :)
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