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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › HAHA! another Question, and it's a big one!! but​almost finished. NOW WITH PICTURES at bottom
03-18-2009 05:12 PM  8 years agoPost 1
axemanclint

rrKey Veteran

Cypress, Tx. USA

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Alright,
So I am almost finished with my Koala scale fuse. I actually had everything mounted in it last night, i put the doghouse back on and the front nose of the fuse. Attached the rotor head and all the other components. WOW! it looks awesome! all this hard work has really turned out nicely. Anyway, technically it is finished (besides some minor scale details) and ready to fly... HOWEVER! after attaching the doghouse and putting the rotor head back on and all together i realized there is not enough room for the flybar to rotate completely freely without hitting the top of the doghouse a little bit when it is deflected more than about 1.5"

I mean I know other people have built this Fuse with the T600E and i mounted everything at the height that was proper and allowed for the mechs to fit correctly.

So what's the deal? do i not really need to worry about this since i do have probably about an 1.5" or so of play with the flybar before it hits the doghouse or anything? I mean i know the flybar doesn't really move a whole lot in flight and with me flying this thing scale and nice and smooth will it not be an issue? YIKES! i would just be afraid of what it would do if it did hit the fuse. everything would be toast!!

So what do i do? is there a way to limit the throw or teeter of the flybar so that it can only go so far and will stop before hitting the doghouse? I am not about to take all the mechs back out and start over and try mounting them up higher. this took forever to finally get right and mounting the mechs higher would just create other problems with components inside the doghouse like the braces that attach to the fuse on the mechs.

Please help guys with any advice, tips, personal fixes etc... for this issue. Thanks.

Cheers,
Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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03-18-2009 06:48 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Copter Doctor

rrProfessor

Enterprise/ft.rucker​,al- home of army​aviation

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usually you dont have to worry because as you said, it doesnt deflect that much during flight. just dont give full aft while it is running and sitting on the ground. now you do need to post a pic of the clearance you have so we can all see if you do have enough clearance because you possibly can be too close even for the small movement it does in flight.
the other solution is a rather expensive one, a four bladed rotorsystem.
post some pics.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

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03-18-2009 07:42 PM  8 years agoPost 3
axemanclint

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Cypress, Tx. USA

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Thanks Copter doctor!
I knew you would come to my rescue. I will definitely post some pics so you guys can truly get an idea of what i am talking about here, i was just thinking about doing that. I won't be able to do so until later tonight since i am going to be working until basically 9:30 tonight. I will try and get some posted up here around 10:00 or 10:30.

I really hope the clearance that i currently have is enough???? Cause I really can't go back and do anymore mods on this thing without losing my mind at this point!
I very badly would love to really step this thing up and do it right and go with a four bladed scale head, but as you stated it's expensive and i can't spend anymore money right now on this project especially like that. ONE DAY though... (dreaming) I would love the four bladed head!!!

Anyway, thanks for your response. I will post pics as soon as i possibly can. So "stay tuned for further Details."

Cheers,
Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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03-19-2009 04:21 AM  8 years agoPost 4
axemanclint

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Cypress, Tx. USA

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Alright, as i promised earlier. Here are the pics that i could get tonight of the fuse with the rotor head attached showing the clearance of the flybar to the doghouse. Please check these out and tell me what you guys think about the clearance and if any of it will be an issue for the scale type of flying???

Side View

Teeter back

teeter forward

See my above posts if your not sure what i am talking about here.
Cheers,
Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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03-19-2009 01:23 PM  8 years agoPost 5
coptercptn

rrElite Veteran

Mesa AZ. USA

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Wow..yes that is pretty close! You probably won't have problems with it flying scale ..but the other option would be to go with a raptor head and use the overhead flybar setup.
if you do stay with this setup ..be sure to center the flybar before spool up.

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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03-19-2009 03:56 PM  8 years agoPost 6
axemanclint

rrKey Veteran

Cypress, Tx. USA

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Thanks...

Now i'm just not sure what to do???

I talked with JanuaryFlyer and he said he had a similar situation with his OH58 and had to make a mock up of the doghouse to test on a pod and boom for clearance. Well when he pushed it into hard scale flying (POOF!) the foam blew up! he says also like you if i fly her calm and easy it MIGHT not be a problem, but like he stated the idea of accidentally pushing her too hard will always be in the back of my mind and that is just not a fun way to fly at all.

At this point i am at a loss, i'm not sure what to do???

Is there any way to limit the throw of the flybar so that it can only teeter in the specific amount of the fuse? What would this do to flying characteristics?

On another note:
How much would a basic four blade head really run me? Could i run it without mixing at first until i have enough money to upgrade and by a mixing unit for it?

I'm just trying to think of everything possible to get around the issues right now so i can fly this freakin fuse i have been working on now for almost 4 months!!!

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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03-19-2009 07:32 PM  8 years agoPost 7
coptercptn

rrElite Veteran

Mesa AZ. USA

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I definitely would not try to limit the rotor head movement...That would be inviting a crash. The 4 blade is one option..but is personal preference and a bit of a learning curve..
The other option as I mentioned before would be to mount a raptor head on the Trex shaft...This places the flybar above the main blades. Also a lot cheaper than going with a 4 blade. A third option would be to make a longer main shaft...raise the whole head setup to give you more clearance..

Just a few Ideas...

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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03-19-2009 07:43 PM  8 years agoPost 8
axemanclint

rrKey Veteran

Cypress, Tx. USA

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How would i get the "raised" taller main shaft? I mean, i really don't have the means whatsoever to make one myself and i am not sure how i would go about getting one either?? Also if i raised the whole head by using a long main shaft wouldn't that change all my linkages as well, because now the head and the blades and flybar are all further away from the swash plate; therefore making it throw all the mixing arms out of whack. So what would need to be changed to fix this issue???

I really appreciate the tip on the raised main shaft, that one would seem like the best option if i had any idea on how to actually attain one. I really don't like the raptor head at all (I hate it) so that really is not even in the options for me. Right now i am actually thinking more along the lines of using a Four blade Scale rotor assembly. I wanted to eventually do this anyway and this would just already go ahead and take it to that next level of scale look and flying.

However i have no idea where to even start looking at these types of heads nor do i know enough about them. So what and where are the kind of four bladed heads i would need for this 600E and one that is of good quality, but not expensive by any means since right now i really can't afford much more on this project at all????

Thank everyone for your help. I am just really bummed that i got this far and had no idea about the rotor head causing me the last and biggest source of issues on this thing. any other tips or advice would be greatly appreciated, or definitely answers to my 2 questions about about four bladed heads and the extended main shaft idea???

thanks
Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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03-20-2009 02:09 AM  8 years agoPost 9
Daveyg

rrApprentice

Irving,tx

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if you try a 4 blade head without electronic stablization your gonna need heavy blades and it's still gonna be twitchy. but it can be done.

you can get the lightning heli head for around 220 bucks.

do unto others then stand back and watch.

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03-20-2009 03:24 AM  8 years agoPost 10
jhenerydec

rrNovice

Delray Beach

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Why not just loose the flybar altogether, This way you don't have to worry about the clearance. I have been playing with my scale bird with a Skookum sk-360 works really great.

Just my 2 cents.

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03-20-2009 03:30 AM  8 years agoPost 11
axemanclint

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Cypress, Tx. USA

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This is definitely an option, but how does it fly without the flybar? Meaning is it tame still or really twitchy? Are you currently doing this without any head mixing or are you flying some type of gyro stabalization??

Are you doing this with a T600E or what? and where would i get the directions on how to modify the current head in order to fly (flybarless)?

Thanks for your $0.02 its actually a great idea, that i had not thought of yet.

Cheers,
Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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03-21-2009 02:07 AM  8 years agoPost 12
coptercptn

rrElite Veteran

Mesa AZ. USA

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yes I forgot about the flybarless option...That is also an alternative...
There are several on the market..I have two myself that I am using on my Turbine and my 5 blade head Hughes 500.(helitronix mixers)
\
To make the longer main shaft simply requires a machine shop that can turn a shaft. you just add more space between the upper bearing and the top of the rotor head, And drill the appropriate holes for the main gear,etc.... Yes, you will need longer links.

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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03-21-2009 02:27 AM  8 years agoPost 13
BABYHUEY

rrNovice

Milwaukee, WI

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You can limit the flybar throw. I have done it to a Bergen Gasser that I put inside a bell 212 fuse. I glued a small piece of soft rubber to the rotor head which limits upward flybar movement on each side. No affect on flying at all. It still has alot of movement available, just not enough to stike the fuse.

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03-21-2009 02:46 AM  8 years agoPost 14
axemanclint

rrKey Veteran

Cypress, Tx. USA

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You can limit the flybar throw. I have done it to a Bergen Gasser that I put inside a bell 212 fuse. I glued a small piece of soft rubber to the rotor head which limits upward flybar movement on each side. No affect on flying at all. It still has alot of movement available, just not enough to stike the fuse.
Thanks man.
I sent you a PM about this and how Doorman helped me with this very idea. I would appreciate if you would read my PM and get back to me with any answers you can. One thing i didn't put in the PM... I was wondering what kind of "soft rubber" you used??

Thanks.
Cheers,
Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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03-23-2009 04:18 PM  8 years agoPost 15
axemanclint

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Cypress, Tx. USA

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Thanks again guys for all your help. I will hopefully start doing this mod today, but i still have a question though??? I am not sure what materials to use in order to make this work??? What should i use on the Limiter itself that will be easy enough to work with and modify, but still very strong to take the amount of abuse and use on the limiting?? I'm just not sure what to go with and where i would get it?? Thanks again

Cheers,
Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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03-23-2009 07:12 PM  8 years agoPost 16
T.C.

rrKey Veteran

Nottingham. England.

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Instead of making a longer main shaft is there not a longer main shaft from a different heli.

I'm sure some of the techi gurus out there would know which one if any would suit.

That would be the way I looked anyhow.

Tony

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03-23-2009 07:19 PM  8 years agoPost 17
axemanclint

rrKey Veteran

Cypress, Tx. USA

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Thanks Tony,
Except right now i am not going to go the longer main shaft route. I have decided on the method that both DOORMAN and BABYHUEY have suggested, which is using a "flybar Limiter." I have the idea and even some drawings/plans on how to do it. I just don't know what kind of material to actually use as the Limiter.

thanks though, if i change my plans or mind and decide to go with a longer main shaft later on then i will definitely go the route of looking for a longer main shaft from another helicopter kit or something instead of trying to make one.

Cheers,
Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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03-23-2009 07:55 PM  8 years agoPost 18
T.C.

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Nottingham. England.

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No worries Clint.

Hopefully you'll get it sorted soon so we can have the maiden flight pics.

Tony

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03-23-2009 08:00 PM  8 years agoPost 19
axemanclint

rrKey Veteran

Cypress, Tx. USA

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haha!! Yes maiden flight pics would be great to have soon. Thanks.
Cheers,
Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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03-26-2009 09:51 PM  8 years agoPost 20
axemanclint

rrKey Veteran

Cypress, Tx. USA

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ALRIGHT GUYS!!! I did it. I finished last night putting the "Flybar Limiters" on the seesaw. So far it seems to have worked. I used some hard rubber, basically cutouts from a large rubber gasket which was approximately 1/8" thick. I cut the pieces to the exact size to fit the spacing on the flybar cage/seesaw area. once in place and situated to leave room for the flybar to still teeter rather freely, but stop it right before hitting anywhere on the fuse; I then used some brand new 5 min epoxy to set it in place. After it dried in an hour i did some tests with it. It seems to be working great! it stops the flybar right before hitting the doghouse or any other part of the fuse top, but doesn't restrict the flybar completely for flying. Since using rubber it is forgiving if the flybar was to deflect too much and hit the stoppers it will just give a little and push the bar back the other direction. I did some little slow spool up tests in the living room after the mod was done without the main blades attached. I used a little forward, aft and side to side cyclic and watched as the flybar deflected in all the directions, but never hit anything. I think i may have it figured out and ready finally for it's first maiden test flight!!!

Finally!!! WHOOOOO!!! this thing has been a lot of work and a long time coming to finally fly, but i think it is all going to be worth it once she is airborne!! Thanks everyone so far for any of your help along the way. Couldn't have done it without you guys.

I will post some Maiden flight pics and some pics of the flybar mod once i get some. I'm finally getting really excited now!!!

Cheers,
Clint

"what goes up must come down," hopefully in one piece!

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