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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
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Other › I sprang for a Mini-G
03-21-2009 04:31 PM  8 years agoPost 21
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

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So are you running the ESC in governor mode the whole time you have been having problems with the Mini-G?
Correct,
Gov mode is my last major variable I believe.
I'd turn it off now, but there would be a brake enabled if I did. This is why I require that card thingy. Guess I should have gone with a diff ESC.

I am trying my best to work all of this out. I realize gov can create tail issues and have been trying to solve that problem for a few weeks.
Although, the gov is not giving the 401 issues. This esc is labled as the smoothest/best gov on the market.

This new wobble issue I have found might be some indication of other things going on aside from the gyro, so I plan to try working those out first. If it comes down to it, I may even have to switch ESC's to get out of gov mode if nothing else works, but the gov does work with the other gyro so I'm trying to leave that as last resort. Whatever the temp change did to create the wobble is what I now need to solve before I go back to trying the mini. Then the gov. Then visual confirmation of the TT, then removing/moving the BEC, then I'm stumped if it won't work after that. So far the 401 worked with everything until I found the wobble in the cyclic the other day when it was hot outside as opposed to when it flew great cold.
It would also be nice for you to post your entire setup as you have it.
jazz 40-6-18
Scorpion HKII 2221-10
was on 13T pinion when had problems, will report after 14T test.
hs 65MG's cyclic.
9650 tail
carbon rod
tail servo mount
CY 59mm TRB's
CY 350 mains
CY stubz 2mm
stock mainshaft (have hardened on hand, not installed)
stock flybar (have hardened on hand, not installed)
CC10A BEC
Fut R617fs FASST rx
401/Mini G
+-12* pitch (Just ran with what I had from first swash evening)
about 3-5* of pitch in the tail blades when servo is center
cyclic pitch unknown. Not even near binding or extremes.
ball 10.5mm out on tail servo horn (second hole in Fut arm)
Made sure to offset the bearing when I glued it on the torque tube. Also, the torque tube bearing is free to rotate. I did not goob it up with glue and cease it.
Gear mesh has a little wiggle between all the gearing.
No lubrication on any of the gears
Glued dampers, grease lubed spindle
main shaft free to slide in and out of the bearing blocks when I built it. I squared up the frame so no pre-load on main shaft bearings.
No bearings are notchy. Had one notchy bearing in the tail blade grip I already replaced.
All my links are properly sized.
Tail linkages swinging free in the breeze or if I bump the heli.
No stripped, cracked, broken or bodged parts whatsoever.
When I did lightly tap my tail, I replaced every spinning part down to the tail hub besides the torque tube, and all the bevels went and I don't feel any wind up so I'm fairly certain the TT is ok. Plus, the problems existed before the light tail tap.

Off to go see if the 14T cured my cyclic wobble. Will have to also test on a hot day after leaving the heli in the sun for 25-30mins like I did the other day when I found the wobble.

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03-21-2009 06:19 PM  8 years agoPost 22
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

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Doh!
I must really not know what I am doing.
Everything I could think of to try removing the cyclic wobble (tail vertical bobbing) made it worse.
My blades are not overly tight or lose and increasing headspeed was not the problem. (it actually had plenty of headspeed on the 13T).

Now I also notice something is squeaking. Like a bearing going out. A high pitch squeek that goes in and out. I will have to break down the entire heli and rebuild it from scratch, check over every bearing on the helicopter. I landed after 30 seconds or so for fear of an Aox moment.

This is just crazy! Several other dudes at the field today confirmed the bob and squeak and were there the other day when it flew perfect as well. I don't know how the helicopter went from flying 100% perfect with the 401 to bobbing all over and squeaking in three flights! Back to the drawing board. I'll report if I can figure out what went wrong..

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03-21-2009 06:40 PM  8 years agoPost 23
MarshallB

rrVeteran

Middle Arkansas

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My guess is something has come loose in the head, spindle/bolts, or elsewhere, etc. Could also be a bearing squeaking on the main shaft or the likes. How stiff is the head? Let us know!


CurtisYoungblood.com
Next-D
Spyder Batteries

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03-21-2009 06:40 PM  8 years agoPost 24
Buzzin Brian

rrProfessor

College Station,​Texas

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Or you could just send the whole thing to us and we will figure it all out quickly and send it back to you in 100% working order with your Mini-G in it. This will minimize time and frustration. The offer still stands, and will continue to.

Brian

Build it, fly it, crash it. Repeat as often as needed.

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03-21-2009 07:48 PM  8 years agoPost 25
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

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Upon further inspection,
I see that the washout base has left what I like to call "goob" on the main shaft, likely binding up the head pretty good.

Would you suggest I oil the main shaft in the future to prevent this? I have had problems on some heli's oiling the shafts, while on others I have not. (this heli, I did not add oil)

Also, would you suggest going to the hardened main shaft to prevent this? Should I oil the hardened main shaft?

Here is a picture of what I found today. I did not oil the stock main shaft at all upon building the heli. No screws in the head are loose, and I have not torn the heli down to look for bad bearings just yet. Is it possible this is a source of squeaking and bobbing? It seems to have actually bound up the rotor head.

I can assure you none of my head limits were maximized to the point of binding to create such wear within the 10-15 flights I've flown my Rave.

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03-21-2009 08:51 PM  8 years agoPost 26
MarshallB

rrVeteran

Middle Arkansas

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I would take some very fine sand paper like 600 and try and smooth it up some.. Put a new Main shaft in if you have one and salvage that one if possible. Then, I use an oil on my Rave that is made by Dumonde Tech that leaves a plastic coating on the shafts. You oil then wipe the residue off. Dumonde tech tends to not attract dust and other stuff like the heavier oils. The thin Tri Flow or machine oil will work too. And yes, I always oil the shafts as well as oil the Scorp 10 motor every 10 flights. I always oil metal to metal contact! I used the non hardened main shafts for a long while and never had a problem with them. Definitely oil them..

I use both these items routinely:

http://www.dumondetech.com/ProductBicycle.html BCL-Lite
Scorpion - Motor Bearing Lubrication Kit


CurtisYoungblood.com
Next-D
Spyder Batteries

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03-22-2009 12:56 AM  8 years agoPost 27
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

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I have 3-in-1 household oil and tri flow super lubricant in a bottle with a small tube applicator. I don't know if either of these will work or not.

I rebuilt the entire rotor head, even though it's never been crashed.
Replaced the main shaft, replaced the flybar, replaced the spindle, main gear and tail drive gear, dampers and even upper and lower jesus bolts.
Not a single notchy bearing in the entire head. Thrust bearings were installed correctly and still holding lube upon disassembling. Dampers were still glued in and unworn. There was no play or bad bearings up there at all and now all the shafts are 100% new, never flown.

No notchy swash. I was careful and checked when I did it the first time. Screws barely even screwed in the swashplate against the bearing. No notch.

Now on to the tail..

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03-22-2009 01:08 AM  8 years agoPost 28
MarshallB

rrVeteran

Middle Arkansas

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3 in one oil will be fine!


CurtisYoungblood.com
Next-D
Spyder Batteries

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03-22-2009 01:55 AM  8 years agoPost 29
JSX

rrApprentice

France

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Casey.
I noticed you don't add washers on low levers arms, like it's suggested in manual addendum. Are alu/plastic parts slop free?
And is the swatchplate's bearing not too tight secured by screws?
Are your main shaft bearings ok? I broke them in a recent crash...
How is your tail gear tail transition support? It can bend in crash, resulting on too important gears mesh. Are 100 T gear and small white gear on the support horizontaly aligned, without slop?
Just some ideas to try to help you... Hope you'll find the solution to this issue quickly.
Jsx

~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~

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03-22-2009 02:06 AM  8 years agoPost 30
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Casey.
I noticed you don't add washers on low levers arms, like it's suggested in manual addendum. Are alu/plastic parts slop free?
And is the swatchplate's bearing not too tight secured by screws?
Are your main shaft bearings ok? I broke them in a recent crash...
How is your tail gear tail transition support? It can bend in crash, resulting on too important gears mesh. Are 100 T gear and small white gear on the support horizontaly aligned, without slop?
Just some ideas to try to help you... Hope you'll find the solution to this issue quickly.
Jsx
I did not add the washers. This is because when I filed down the step on the inside of the radius link, it was still thick enough to not require a washer. There was no gap to fill there. No play. But I will put them in now for the heck of it.

Main shaft bearings seem fine. No crashes on the head yet and low flight time on the bearings.

I have the updated transition support. I don't think it bent. Still has original mesh and feel. The alignment of the transfer gear and 100t gear are as they were stock. Seems like maybe there was a tiny angle there on purpose, not perfectly horizontal?

I tried to spool up the scorpion motor to see if it squeaks but I can't tell. I probably wouldn't know for sure unless it was under load anyways.

Took the whole tail apart. I already know everything on the tail gearbox is good as I've been over than several times by now. The bearing on the torque tube is ok, and no cracks in the torque tube for sure now 100%. No notches in the bearings of the bevel or transfer gearing. I also accidentally cut my finger pretty good on the tail boom when trying to push the torque tube out. It slipped and in went my finger against the sharp part. Be careful guys, use a driver or something to push the TT out of the boom so you don't cut yourself. That thing is sharp and will gouge you good!

Hopefully it will be flying good now. Will try again soon after I reset the radio programming and pitch and all that.

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03-22-2009 02:44 AM  8 years agoPost 31
JSX

rrApprentice

France

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One day a friend of mine had some issues with head vibrations. It was carbon rods of the tail boom support which were not exactly the same in lenght, so there was a pression on the boom which done vibrations in main rotorhead!!!!
On my rave, one time a rod wasn't glued anymore in the metallic end, and it might be an issue for me. So perhaps you can just check yours in lenght and good ends fixation.
Sorry for your finger, your advice is recorded in my little head : )

~¤°Rave~4S/350¤Trex250°¤~

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03-22-2009 03:09 AM  8 years agoPost 32
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I may have found the squeak problem.

The aluminum spacer inside of the 100T tail gear is rubbing on the OD main shaft bearing race.

This would explain why the squeak would go in and out. Positive pitch would make it squeak, negative pitch make squeak go away or minimal/less squeaking.

I have to file down the 100T gear and the 100t gear tube spacer so the auto rotation sleeve will extend past the 100t gear spacer and the spacer will no longer rub my main shaft bearing. Also, the plastic 100T gear rubs the main shaft bearing blocks and will have to be filed down too.

To explain it best,
it looks like my auto sleeve was not long enough, so I must file other parts shorter to compensate. (100T gear and it's sleeve) I hope this is the source of the squeak. Only thing I could find really..

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03-22-2009 03:44 AM  8 years agoPost 33
caseyjholmesrrElite Veteran - Portland, Oregon - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Images of the rubbing.. (this is the bottom of the bottom bearing block)

Cause of the rubbing with evidence of rubbing highlighted.
No spacer or clearance on the bearing from the sleeve? Inner most sleeve too short?

I don't exactly know how I could have caused this. Seems like it must have been like that from the get go? I didn't apply much pressure when tightening the shaft collar, there wasn't any play besides that of the inner bearing races. Looks like I wore the sleeve down in just a few flights?

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03-22-2009 06:40 AM  8 years agoPost 34
Sky Dancer

rrVeteran

Bryan, Texas

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casejhomes,

Not sure, but it looks like your mainshaft bearing might be mounted a little deep in the bearing block which might cause a little rubbing on the 100T gear. I looked at a couple of my bearing blocks and they appear to have the bearings mounted level with the bearing block.

However, I can't imagine this would be much of an issue and I'd just try swapping the top and bottom bearing blocks to see if there's any difference between the two.

Don C

Keep up your rotor speed !

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03-22-2009 07:00 AM  8 years agoPost 35
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

But then, what about the short/ground down one way sleeve?

You can see the sleeve in the bottom picture, recessed into the 100T gear sleeve. The screw is installed aligning all the holes too.

To make the one way sleeve protrude as it should I would have to file the 100T gear and 100T gear sleeve.

Even if the bearing is/was riding flush in the block, the assembly would rub both the inner and outer race of the bearing as well as the shield at the same time if I tried to use it again.

I will have to replace the bearing block and the auto sleeve for a longer one, and hope my next sleeve does not grind away in 10-15 flights. The bottom bearing still isn't even notchy but with all those shaving that probably got in there it will be soon. Best to replace it now. I don't believe the bearing seized in any way causing the sleeve to wear out. It still rotates freely.

I don't see how this could happen. It's not like I screwed the parts together and compressed them too tight. I just pushed up on the main shaft lightly while pressing down on the collar lightly and tightened the screw..

At least I found one of the problems on my heli.

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