RunRyder RC
 9  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 3 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3     NEXT    >> ] 2233 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Spectra water landing, ...whew!!!
03-17-2009 10:32 PM  8 years agoPost 21
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Why didn't you hit throttle hold and bring it down with out the piro?
Frankly, I didn't know that would work with a tail rotor failure. Besides, my reflexes on the heli are such that I'm usually like "WTF just happened?" after I have hit the ground.

After flying planes for 20+ years, it is hard for me to overcome the instinct to give full throttle and pull back on the elevator when I get into trouble. This works great for fixed wing, but not so good with a heli (making it fly backwards real fast). This sim doesn't have the "Oh Sh*t" factor that flying the real thing does, so I tend not to panic on the sim. It is hard to simulate the adrenaline rush when reason goes out the window and instinct takes over.
Elbow grease can polish a turd, the Mythbusters proved it, but it was still a turd, just shiny.
I must have missed that episode. I'll check the Discovery channel listings for a repeat

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2009 10:50 PM  8 years agoPost 22
TaleGunner

rrElite Veteran

Deer Park WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Frankly, I didn't know that would work with a tail rotor failure.
As soon as you hit throttle hold the torque is gone and the tail will stop spinning.

All that said if you go OH S*&T after you crash you just need more stick time it will come and if it doesent you only spend $150 to fix it

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2009 10:58 PM  8 years agoPost 23
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thus your mantra: CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2009 11:13 PM  8 years agoPost 24
TaleGunner

rrElite Veteran

Deer Park WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You don't like my tag line

Post some pics of your Spectra G. mine is ready to break in, I have been trying for over a week but the weather has been terrible. guess I will have to wait until I get back from Vegas I'm on the 5am tomorrow.

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-17-2009 11:40 PM  8 years agoPost 25
CNCjunkie

rrVeteran

Kauai (The Garden​Isle), Hawaii - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

First of all, the instructions say there are two sets of dampers included with the kit. I have 4 O-rings total in the bag, and they all look the same. From the pictures and instructions it seems like I need to put two O-rings on either side of the upper head block--so this must mean there was only one set of dampeners included with the kit?
I was wondering this also, but it seemed to me that the included 0-rings were all meant for the standard dampening, so I followed that scenario. I figure, if I want to make the head stiffer, I can always do that later.
Next, I have 3 sets of shims (really thin washers). The instructions say to choose the shim set you want depending on the stiffness of the head you desire. Do the thicker shims give you a stiffer head?
I followed standard dampening and also added #0426 or #0329 to both sides, I forget which one, but can check when I get home. I basically added what I thought would add a little more stiffness. I'd be interested in hearing about how others have done it. Raja? ExCal?
Finally, the biggest problem is that I can't figure out how to get the aluminum retainer sleeves inside the metal blade grips (tempest head). I was thinking I would do it like replacing the bearings in a nitro motor, i.e. put the blade grips in the oven at about 250 degrees and put the retaining sleeves in the freezer. I don't want to damage the blade grips however. Is there an easier way?
You have to heat up the grips with a heat gun. I found my old monokote gun, which worked well. As I slipped on the grips, they grabbed right away and I had to heat them up just a little bit more to slip them over the bearing/spacer stack the rest of the way. Make sure you wear gloves.

I've not completed the build, but can tell you the grips rotate smoothly with no notchyness. Just like butter!

Just another crappy day in Paradise....Aloha!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 02:24 AM  8 years agoPost 26
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A good funny thread, I enjoyed it!

I was going to answer thee build questions but thanks CNCJunkie saved me some typing! Yes heat the grips with your airplane monokote heat gun and they will slip in like butter as they say. Install the one screw while they are hot to get them centered right, then when they cool add locktite and install the blade arm screws, then go back and remove the short screw, locktite it and put it back. Do not overtorque it, they can strip if you do.

I use the same standard dampening as CNCJunkie.

If you lose the belt with the 450, its almost best to go full collective and blow the head before you drop in and do the dead cat bounce. As soon as you hit hold its going to bleed the headspeed FAST you're not bringing this guy in for an auto landing unless you are 300 feet up. If you bleed all the head speed many times the blades will not break and you may not even bend any shafts.

Jockstuart, you would be in for a rude surprise if the engine quit and you went to full collective and waited until you got close to the ground to reduce it for a landing - you can call that a blade stop freefall! Spectra-g autos are a piece of CAKE! If you can auto a trex 450, you can auto anything. The Spectra is very graceful and gives you plenty of time to make a good landing. I even did an auto today in the wind where I was in a 30 degree dive and I hit hold and didn't even lower the collective, just flared it inches off the ground and made the landing with the rest of the collective. But bad story for you here, don't get confused, this is not a normal way to do an auto, save this when you are very comfortable - I just wanted to point out how easy it was when you get good.

OK, wanna talk more but I got PM's to answer!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 02:42 AM  8 years agoPost 27
Excalibur

rrKey Veteran

Destination: Earth

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Jrock:

Whatever you do, get your sim set up for proper switch function and practice autos 'til your fingers bleed.

Usually, you set up the right-rear switch on your TX for throttle hold. I believe most people set it up so that when you "pull" the switch up (or towards you) it kicks the engine to idle or slightly above. Set it up for whichever switch direction feels correct for you and then STICK WITH IT. Make sure you then set up your actual heli TX identically to the sim to avoid confusion.

Here's the kicker; when you finally do learn to do autos on the sim successfully, you'll find yourself doing them all the time in all types of attitudes and configurations. This helps commit the movements to muscle memory regardless of orientation or attitude. THIS IS THE KEY! In a real-world flame-out or emergency, you have NO time to think. This is where all your sim training takes over and you can bring the bird in safely.

After I learned to do autos with my Predator, it got to be such a rush that I would burn through a half tank of fuel just doing them over and over. This was great right up to the point that I brain-farted one day and had a blade stop auto that dropped the bird straight down from 150 feet. Ever seen how high a Predator will bounce? It ain't pretty.

Anyway, just get your sim set up properly and practice, it will make a world of difference.

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 03:12 AM  8 years agoPost 28
bosshoss

rrVeteran

Chicago, IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I auto the 50 , but I have not practiced autos with the Spectra G for this very reason....
This was great right up to the point that I brain-farted one day and had a blade stop auto that dropped the bird straight down from 150 feet. Ever seen how high a Predator will bounce? It ain't pretty.
But, now that I have done it, I will start practicing on the Spectra.

It was just a mental thing , not wanting to hurt my baby. I flew in 22mph with gusts to 30 this evening. It was a little bumpy, and unpredictable (the wind) , so I didn't auto today, but next time out.

At the very least, my first auto with this bird, forced and all, went smooth textbook clean. Applied what I learned form th e50 and Sim, and I set it down a good 200ft. from myself, muddy splash and all.

Jrock, I too have flown gasser planes for the last 8 years, nitro Rc and control line since the seventies. I found one thing about making the transition to helis muy importante:

You have to disengage Airplane Brain, and Engage Heli Brain.

My "moment of clarity" came during my FIRST forced auto on my R90 .....I shouted out loud "Deadstick!!!!" (Airplane Brain), and Heli Brain screamed AUTOROTATION!!!! I realized right then, I found my Heli Brain.

Disengage Airplane Brain, Step 1.

Why Hover a Yak, when a Heli does it better?

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 03:23 AM  8 years agoPost 29
TaleGunner

rrElite Veteran

Deer Park WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have done lots of autos with my 600e and Ion x2. the ion also swings 710s and will float in, sometimes you can flair, stop, clime a little and still set it down like a feather but its over 3 lbs lighter than my spectra. but as soon as it get broke in I cant wait to try a high auto. hopefully it will do inverted autos like the Ion will

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
Spectra-G, Ion X-2

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 04:02 AM  8 years agoPost 30
CNCjunkie

rrVeteran

Kauai (The Garden​Isle), Hawaii - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Install the one screw while they are hot to get them centered right, then when they cool add locktite and install the blade arm screws, then go back and remove the short screw, locktite it and put it back. Do not overtorque it, they can strip if you do.
Thanks Raja. You added some detail here I forgot to mention. I did this step just as you explained and it worked great. It's just a matter of timing before the grip cools and grabs hold of the bearings and spacer.

Just another crappy day in Paradise....Aloha!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 05:52 AM  8 years agoPost 31
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I've been using the right rear switch on my transmitter for years as the throttle hold/engine kill switch on my airplanes, but on my Trex I only use it to disengage the motor so I can move my collective up and down to check if it is binding. As far as I am concerned, hitting that switch in flight would be suicide. But I guess you guys are right. If I'm going to graduate up to flying a 13 pound gasser, then I guess I should learn all of the engine out procedures. I mean let's put things in perspective here. The parts bag with the clutch and main shaft in my Spectra-G kit weighs more than my entire Trex 450 AUW, so we're talking about a jump up to the major leagues here.

By the way, how close do you fly the Spectra to yourself? With my Trex, anything more than about 30 feet away and it is almost invisible, but then again the blades on a 450 helicopter probably won't kill you. The Spectra-G on the other hand--wow, 720mm CF blades turning 1800rpm. Talk about some serious kinetic energy.
do the dead cat bounce
I know about the chicken dance, but I've never heard that phrase before.

And to clarify, a "blade stop auto" is when you give too much collective too soon and you lose all of the rotational inertia of your blades before you're ready to set down?

Working on my Spectra today, I think I'm going to start liking these big helicopters a lot better than the airplanes. As far as I am concerned, I would rather assemble machined pieces of carbon fiber and aluminum with socket head screws then to sand balsa wood, mix epoxy, and iron down monokote. It reminds me of when I was a kid and used to put together Legos and Erector sets.

I guess you guys already figured this one out.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 08:42 AM  8 years agoPost 32
pgkevet

rrKey Veteran

Wales

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

With my Trex, anything more than about 30 feet away and it is almost invisible, but then again the blades on a 450 helicopter probably won't kill you.
I managed to dumbthumb my 450 into myself learning side hovering and wear a twisted finger that never set right. Give these things serious respect ..even if they look like toys.
You can see a 450 at 100yds out and 20 feet up (just.. but 300 feet up..No)..and I don't fly that closer than 30 feet except for landing, now.

Good thing about big heli's is you can see them even higher... Things aflla t the same speed.. so big means higher means more time. Or in my case more kinetic energy when the ground swallows it.

pgk

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 12:44 PM  8 years agoPost 33
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Here is a good writeup on auto's. Learn them before you have to

http://www.ronlund.com/autos.htm

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 02:07 PM  8 years agoPost 34
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South​Carolina

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I would have bought a QWW if I wanted a "backyard" mechanic helicopter. But, I bought the premium helicopter.
bosshoss, your comment would be valid if you knew what you were talking about. Since my heli's parts aren't overvalued, then in your opinion it's a "turd". Typical of someone who has never flown the same heli. It's amazing how much elitist attitude comes through from some in the heli community. I don't think most crashes cost 500 to 600 dollars with a gasser...no matter what gasser you fly. I also stated that if my Zimmerman muffler get trashed, it would cost more. I guess that Sab blades and Zimmerman mufflers are "turds" in the opinion of bosshoss.
Fly what you like. If spending more money makes you feel better about yourself, then by all means please do......but please don't do it to try to elevate yourself above others....

sorry to kinda hijack, just had to answer back on an uninformed post..

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 02:28 PM  8 years agoPost 35
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

http://www.ronlund.com/autos.htm
That was a helpful article. Thank you for the suggestion.

Maybe I'll put my old Rotopod training gear back on my 450 and try autoing from a couple of feet up (after I figure it out on the simulator). I don't think there is too much rotational inertia in 325mm blades, however.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 03:05 PM  8 years agoPost 36
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Autos

Don't try to learn autos with the 450, its the hardest thing to do as you have almost NO window of opportunity to make the landing. Your timing has to be within 1/2 a second and you need to punch the collective and flare at the right moment to stop it an inch or two above the ground and drop in. It doesn't hover in an auto, the energy in the blades only stop the descent for 1/2 a second and then it continues on.

With something like a Spectra, you have a good 5 seconds of hover flight while adding collective to set it down. If you screw up the auto its more expensive to fix, but you have a much better chance to succeed with it that with a 450 which you are probably guaranteed to break.

You need to learn to fly around first and get comfortable before you learn to auto.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 03:56 PM  8 years agoPost 37
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Don't try to learn autos with the 450, its the hardest thing to do as you have almost NO window of opportunity to make the landing. Your timing has to be within 1/2 a second and you need to punch the collective and flare at the right moment to stop it an inch or two above the ground and drop in. It doesn't hover in an auto, the energy in the blades only stop the descent for 1/2 a second and then it continues on.
+1 !! Auto'ing a 450 = broken parts. Successful 450 auto's are more like a soft crash.

I learned auto's with a Raptor 50 and wood blades. Blowing an auto with that setup wasn't too expensive and has saved me MUCH money, time and anguish over the last 3 years or so.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 05:00 PM  8 years agoPost 38
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South​Carolina

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I also learned my autos with a 50 size machine. I had much more time at the bottom than I thought that I would have. The first was forced, the others were on my own. I also tried an auto with my 450 size heli and it's just not enough weight or blade area to work it out. Like others stated, it ended up as a controlled crash.

I would take any advice that rbort has to offer.....he makes autos look absolutely effortless...

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 05:49 PM  8 years agoPost 39
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I would take any advice that rbort has to offer.....he makes autos look absolutely effortless...
Raja, why don't you make a YouTube training video on autorotations in the Spectra-G like you did with the training video on the pull starter? I think a lot of us would like to see that.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-18-2009 09:32 PM  8 years agoPost 40
CNCjunkie

rrVeteran

Kauai (The Garden​Isle), Hawaii - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

jrock,

As others have mentioned, practice everything on the sim until you don't have to think about what you’re doing.

I like to use the term muscle memory. When I first started flying heli's, I couldn't even talk to anyone while flying. Now I can carry on a full conversation while flying, as I'm really not thinking about what I'm doing, just doing.

My first auto was with a Trex 600E and was flawless. 5 in a row flawless with the last bit of battery I had and ran it down below the 80% rule because I couldn't stop. All was a result of practice and logging over $10k worth of crashes in the sim.

You’re still going to get rubber legs and shaky hands when you do it in real life, but you will have muscle memory working for you.

Just another crappy day in Paradise....Aloha!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 3 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3     NEXT    >> ] 2233 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Spectra water landing, ...whew!!!
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 9  Topic Subscribe

Monday, November 20 - 2:23 am - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online