RunRyder RC
 15  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 3 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 2759 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Too much to handle for Smothcam or Deshaker?
03-16-2009 03:52 PM  8 years agoPost 1
daytonabeach

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

http://www.vimeo.com/3688754

I think its almost impossible to get a decent quality after using Smoothcam, even after small adjustments...

I hear Deshaker and Smoothcam are about the same, but are they really?
None better than the other?

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 04:23 PM  8 years agoPost 2
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I think the saying is: "Quality in, Quality out - Garbage in, Garbage out"

I have come to conclusion that shooting video with a underslung mount is like racing with a dump truck. I understand why most of the good videos are shot with front mount. The lower the CG the better handling and less pendulum effect.

Thats my 2 cents.

Robert

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 04:29 PM  8 years agoPost 3
daytonabeach

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Lol, in this case, quality in, garbage out

I vote for a PS1 with IMU, i wont turn that down before ive tested it...
Besides, i realize i probably need to get a second machine with front mount after all, to cover all areas of work

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 04:56 PM  8 years agoPost 4
Hogster

rrKey Veteran

Surrey, UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It's hard to tell the effectiveness of something like DeShaker with footage of the ground ... can you try shooting some stuff straight forward (hovering, forward flight, banking etc) and try again?

I've had some pretty good results with DeShaker - the only limiting part being that it doesn't counter for barrel distortion in the lens. I've seen quite a few videos where yes, the subject is kept relatively stationery, but it appears to ripple as the barrel distortion changes the image as the subject moves.

But as Rob says, if you put good quality video in, software stabilisation can do a marvellous job of smoothing out the bumps

Here's some footage from one of my helis last year:

http://www.vimeo.com/797655

My 2p,

David

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 04:56 PM  8 years agoPost 5
GeorgeM

rrApprentice

Europe

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

IMHO, its not bad at all for a raw file.

In fairness to the stabilizing software you're using, there are no anchor points for it to anchor with, since everything is flowing fast so quickly !!

Perhaps your mount can benefit from better vibe isolation though !!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 05:14 PM  8 years agoPost 6
46Taylorcraft

rrKey Veteran

AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What jumps out at me immediately is that the frame is full mostly of snow.

Optical Flow trackers like SmoothCam require a bit of contrast. Optical Flow tracking looks at every pixel or in some cases blocks of pixels and determines their vector and velocity.

Then with a little math it determines the average movement of the frame and offsets the frame opposite of that calculated movement.

With a frame that contains alot of white it can't properly "see" and calculate pixel movement.

Also your field of view appears rather shallow. Were you zoomed in? Do you use a wide angle converter?

Tilt up a bit, widen up the field of view and try to fly where there is a bit more contrast and it'll work great..... but you still gotta fly smooth or else Optical Flow stabilizers will heavily distort the image as it tries it's best to smooth the movement.

If you've ever seen a stabilized clip that looks like it's a wavy flag that is because the source footage was much too shaky or the helicopter has a vibration issue. Remember, a lens does not offer a perfect linear projection onto the sensor. There is an element of barrel distortion where the image is slightly compressed and bent near the edges. If you try to Smoothcam too much you'll see some weird effects begin to happen.

What would be great is an Optical Flow stabilizer that would allow you to input the sensor size, lens focal length, and barrel distortion compensation adjuster. It'd be nice if as the frame moves "X" amount from center in x,y coordinates it would apply a lens correction algorithm and keep the overall frame looking very close in lens distortion from one frame to the next.

I suppose that will happen.... one day.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 05:18 PM  8 years agoPost 7
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yep, I'm setting up one of the Jokers with a front mount from PS1.

Shooting raw un-edited test footage of the DJI GPS system with the AF underslung mount and bungee cord method is just to high of CG etc.. I'm uploading some boring test footage today and will add a link this afternoon.

I'm sure trackhead will chime in with some amazing footage from his Trex 600 that he just so happened to have in his backpack while hiking in the Rockies.

Robert

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 05:50 PM  8 years agoPost 8
tabbytabb

rrElite Veteran

seattle

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Underslungs can work great. Just check out some of Jeff's footage which is all from an airfoil 30 mount.

Key is not having the mount hanging too loose on the bungees and flying smooth. I shot a lot of my earlier stuff with an underslung and still use it on occasion.

This clip was with an underslung and it is decently smooth:

http://aerialpan.smugmug.com/galler...7421_j87ZM-A-LB

Tabb

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 05:53 PM  8 years agoPost 9
GeorgeM

rrApprentice

Europe

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

rerazor... I cannot understand why you call an underslung mount --> high CG..
An underslung mount will actually lower your CG!!

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 06:08 PM  8 years agoPost 10
46Taylorcraft

rrKey Veteran

AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

An underslung mount will actually lower your CG!!
I think he meant the angular mass is greater. Or he's flying around upside down all the time.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 07:05 PM  8 years agoPost 11
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yes, angular mass. "body roll"

Yes, to be fair there is some very good footage from underslung mounts. I mean that the flying characteristics is like flying a big brick.

Also, there is no substitute for flying smooth and having magic thumbs. I seem to lack both.

Robert

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 07:34 PM  8 years agoPost 12
aambrose

rrElite Veteran

Pana, IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I remember when Jeff used to post some killer footage before we were even thinking about post stabilization. He may have a KS2 but that's still not the magic solution.

Magic thumbs....does anyone sell those?


Tony

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 08:32 PM  8 years agoPost 13
daytonabeach

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hey, thanks for the input...

I can see the problem with lots of snow, but i wanted to figure that out since im going to shoot under that particular conditions, but it will be following a moving object, and that might make the whole difference when going to deshake it, but generally all the efforts of using smoothcam generally degrades the video quality from 10 to 5 disregarding angle of shooting, thats why i also would like to hear about some comparison between DS and SC, if there are any advantag/disadvant over each other.

Ive also been experimenting like Tabb says, tightening the bungees so its not that lose, but i guess there is a thin line between to tight and to loose...

DJ, it wasnt zoomed in, just the standard Sony HC9 lens, it was shot from around 30-50ft above ground.

Ive been considering a ks2, but i think i will put my money in a PS1 first to see how it works, hard mount=no sway, but then again, it needs to be more or less vibe free...

Hogster, yes ive also tried straight forward, pretty smooth in hover, but swaying in forward flights, maybe due to wind resistance...
Heres a clip of hovering, this is also raw files...
http://www.vimeo.com/3645292

By the way Hog, why do you have 2p all the time?

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 08:43 PM  8 years agoPost 14
cranester

rrKey Veteran

Bogota, Colombia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I love my underslug, it works great for me, just gotta learn how to fly it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vMUKFkYZpg

Juan Crane

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 08:49 PM  8 years agoPost 15
daytonabeach

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Cool Cranester, what mount do you have?

Another thing im curious on is, when descending or climbing, the blades generate more vibes to the heli, i guess thats normal, but how do you cope with that?

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 08:57 PM  8 years agoPost 16
cranester

rrKey Veteran

Bogota, Colombia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I use a modified HCS gyro stabilized mount, Bungees and the correct separation between the heli and the mount will get you absolutely vibe free video without much tinkering, front mounts on the other hand.... look at them the wrong way and your back to square one.

Juan Crane

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 09:03 PM  8 years agoPost 17
cranester

rrKey Veteran

Bogota, Colombia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I did some similar flying the other day and had no problem with deshaker, maybe snow is not a good background, I've had trouble deshaking water shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2c3bcizRFA

Juan Crane

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 09:14 PM  8 years agoPost 18
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I don't want to be known as the anti-bungee-cord underslung mount guy.

Robert

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 09:30 PM  8 years agoPost 19
aambrose

rrElite Veteran

Pana, IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I don't want to be known as the anti-bungee-cord underslung mount guy.
Too late!

It's a fine line between too tight and too loose on the bungees. You also get lateral (side to side) movement sometimes even with a KS2 mounted in various configurations. Video is a different beast and has always been a challenge. The great thing about us as a whole is that we constantly want to improve. Experimenting and testing will pay off. Just look at Tabb and Jeff!


Tony

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
03-16-2009 09:35 PM  8 years agoPost 20
AirFoil Aerial Systems

rrKey Veteran

IL.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

We have never run a clip posted through anything. Wouldn't think of it. If we sell you a mount to shoot video the R&D has been done to make sure that is what you can do.

Basically our R&D must not have worked if post is need to remove vibrations in the video.

These two clips were shot for a Promo for ADF. Nothing great just shot, then sold to the organization.

Straight from the camera. I can't imaging selling a mount you need to use post stabilization to have an end product you could sell.

Demo clip1

Demo clip2

Like I said nothing great. Shot using zoom also.

FYI daytonabeach This is a quote from DJ or PS1.
And to be completely honest, the clips have been run through some post stabilization. I stabilize all my shots to some extent.
If you do work in post I'm not bashing that I just think shooting the best possible video from the start you will end up with a better product in the end.

John

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 3 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 2759 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Too much to handle for Smothcam or Deshaker?
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 15  Topic Subscribe

Monday, November 20 - 9:25 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online