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HelicopterMain Discussion › torque tube VS belt drive?
03-17-2009 06:09 AM  8 years agoPost 21
AaronJohnson

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mason,MI

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Belts. Torque tubes are a pain in the butt!
LOL This is fun!

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03-17-2009 06:12 AM  8 years agoPost 22
McRex

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AZ-USA

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Belts. Torque tubes are a pain in the butt!
Ok, let's get this thing going... Explain, because all the TT heli's I fly or have flown are way easier to deal with in every aspect than the several belt drive heli's I own or have owned.

Daniel, AMA # 923248

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03-17-2009 01:56 PM  8 years agoPost 23
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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I'll stick to my belts cause ive never broke anything when the tail blades hit the ground on a landing,chipped the blades but thats about it.I rather fly than work .Flame suit on .

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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03-17-2009 02:21 PM  8 years agoPost 24
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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easy solution to that... STOP ROTOTILLING!

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03-17-2009 02:26 PM  8 years agoPost 25
McRex

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AZ-USA

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easy solution to that... STOP ROTOTILLING
LMAO!!!! My thoughts exactly!

Daniel, AMA # 923248

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03-17-2009 02:31 PM  8 years agoPost 26
snjbird

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Kissimmee, Florida-​USA

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I just added a TT to my 600CF, it has been a great upgrade, flying autos is so much better now. I did the first 400 flights with the belt, and I really can't say that it was bad, the first belt lasted 350 flights, I have the belt unit on standby if I need it.

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03-17-2009 02:36 PM  8 years agoPost 27
darkfa8

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Brick, NJ - USA

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as per Dominik Haegele, 3D Masters and XFC champ, when I asked him about this topic he found no major difference between a belt and TT drive on his Hirobo machines. His competition machines have belt driven tails.

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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03-17-2009 02:37 PM  8 years agoPost 28
Mutt

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M ca usa

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Its like fords and chevys eveyone has thier likes and dislikes. I like the TT over the belt and I have rototilled the ground a couple of times and never hurt the tube ever I have broken teeth off the main gear from playing gardner with the tail rotor but I have never had to replave a TT . Belts for me are a pain and I just dont like them.

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03-17-2009 02:52 PM  8 years agoPost 29
longhair

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Beaver Falls, PA

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I like Fords and TTs. I had a few Raptors, an HBK2 and now an HDX 450 and I absolutely hate the belt.

My Raven has a TT and I love it. I not happy with selling it and going back to a belt drive tail in the HDX, but we all have choices to make.

I have bumped the tail and have yet to use my spare crown gear.

I haven't tried rototilling with it though.

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03-17-2009 03:17 PM  8 years agoPost 30
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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USNAviationjay easy solution to that... STOP ROTOTILLING!
LOL I gotta remember that one haha

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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03-17-2009 03:25 PM  8 years agoPost 31
rotormonkey

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Ottawa, ON - Canada

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Yeah I've got one of each on my helis. Personally it's a wash for me. The TT has never broke when I dug the tail in a bit on a lousy auto, or even crashing it. It doesn't break unless you REALLY mess up the tail boom (ie land on the tail at high speed).

The belt on my 450 has slipped off - never had that problem with the TT.

TT gives better auto performance. An added bonus, but not the end of the world if I didn't have it.

Can't put a TT on backwards and spool up to see your heli going apesh!t. (guilty)

If/When I do land on the tail it's going to be a lot more expensive to fix though.

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03-17-2009 03:34 PM  8 years agoPost 32
Jeff polisena

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westpalmbeachflorida​usa

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My opinion is not the cost of repair but performance . The belt drive systems are inconsistant the TT locks in and gyro feels more positive .I would say if you crash alot and are not doing tail first tricks or reversing tail tricks you probably will not notice difference .

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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03-17-2009 03:42 PM  8 years agoPost 33
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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I would also comment that how the TT is driven matters. The Raven uses a double dog bone that allows a lot of movement when you bend a boom. Ive had many crashes that my TT lived Thru just fine and a few the boom wrapped around the TT, it didnt survive those! I know the Hawk has a set screw connection on one end, I doubt that arraignment could live Thru much as it allows very little movement.

RIP ROMAN

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03-17-2009 05:32 PM  8 years agoPost 34
snjbird

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Kissimmee, Florida-​USA

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Most of the crashes I've had, were the TT was destroyed, it was the least of my worries!

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03-17-2009 05:49 PM  8 years agoPost 35
imnxtc

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BC.Canada

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I would also comment that how the TT is driven matters. The Raven uses a double dog bone that allows a lot of movement when you bend a boom. Ive had many crashes that my TT lived Thru just fine
I think that is exactly what OF was referring to here:
But the best torque tube design, is better in performance, dependability, maintenance etc. and about as crash resistant (as aluded to by QuantumPSI) as the best belt drive...so I will take a good t/t drive any time.
- the design with a dogbone U-joint system on each end, as in your Raven and the Predators, has very good crash resistance...yet gives you all the efficiency and other benefits of the TT.

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03-17-2009 06:03 PM  8 years agoPost 36
imnxtc

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BC.Canada

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as per Dominik Haegele, 3D Masters and XFC champ, when I asked him about this topic he found no major difference between a belt and TT drive on his Hirobo machines
Of note here, is that the Hirobo belt drive system is the best design type of belt system....and the key wording here is "no major difference"...meaning there is a difference.

And as a sponsored pilot any maintenance issues etc. will be looked after by Hirobo.

Check out his pulleys also - are they plastic?? I would bet that they are not. If they were they would melt due to the heat that would be generated by the tightness one would have to run the belt at, for his type of flying.

Also of consequence, would be how many flights he gets per belt, before it wears out at that tight a setting.

None of these issues factor in with a well designed torque tube system.

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03-17-2009 06:30 PM  8 years agoPost 37
Frank Bostwick

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Cincinnati Ohio

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Case in point, I just now had a flame out and had to auto into some low brush. Boom was dented 1" long x a good .25" or more deep. Looks like a blade strike. TT is fine, tail gears feel fine although I will look at them befor going up again.
Not every TT "crash" kills the TT.

RIP ROMAN

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03-17-2009 07:05 PM  8 years agoPost 38
darkfa8

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Brick, NJ - USA

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Of note here, is that the Hirobo belt drive system is the best design type of belt system....and the key wording here is "no major difference"...meaning there is a difference.

And as a sponsored pilot any maintenance issues etc. will be looked after by Hirobo.

Check out his pulleys also - are they plastic?? I would bet that they are not. If they were they would melt due to the heat that would be generated by the tightness one would have to run the belt at, for his type of flying.

Also of consequence, would be how many flights he gets per belt, before it wears out at that tight a setting.

None of these issues factor in with a well designed torque tube system.
There are only a small percentage of pilots who can fly as hard or at the level Dominik is capable of. While I had the privilege of working with him, the belt system in his machines was never an issue. As a matter of fact, I've seldom ever heard of anyone complaining about the operation of a Hirobo belt driven tail.

His primary model for the XFC used a stock plastic Freya front belt pulley and a metal EX tail output shaft/gear assembly. His secondary used a stock Freya front and rear plastic tail pulley. The model he flew at IRCHA '08 was a bone-stock Turbulence D3 that uses plastic front and rear belt pulleys. His headspeed for his Freya and Turbulence is 1950rpm. Of course, if you think the pullies are melting from the routines these guys fly than I can only assume that Bobby Watts must be running special titanium pullies

Dominik, his Dad and Albert Fruth (their mechanic) never remarked on any problems with the tail system and of all the other machine-related issues he/we did encounter through testing, the tail section wasn't one of them.

Everyone can presume what they wish, but I personally had a hand in checking over his machines after many flights and the belt tail system had no problems. It also didn't seem to inhibit him from performing piro-flipping autos down on the deck for one of his XFC routines.

Bando of Japan makes the belts Hirobo’s uses. Many other heli manufactures use the same brand of belt. They are of excellent quality and have excellent power transmission efficiency. Otherwise, there isn't anything else special about a Hirobo belt system. The key is really in the quality of the belt.

The fact is a belt system can be just as effective as a torque tube system and is typically less expensive to repair or replace in the event of a crash.

Many people will cite that the torque tube is more efficient at transferring power. That it is, but depending on the materials used, quality of manufacture of the drive train, your gear mesh, the quality and smoothness of your bearings, all these other factors will all affect efficiency.

Fortunately, since manufacturing techniques continue to improve, the perceivable difference between a belt driven tail vs. a torque tube will continue to narrow.

If you have any further doubts or questions about what Dominik flys and how long it a particular component last you should message him on here: Domefly

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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03-17-2009 08:38 PM  8 years agoPost 39
LonR

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Macomb,Mi

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There both good,have fun and FLY .

600LE,OS55,OS PowerBoost pipe,Align 610's,Spartan

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03-18-2009 01:54 AM  8 years agoPost 40
Mentalic

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Luling, Louisiana​USA

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Some of the grass fields I fly off of can be a bit rough. Critters digging holes and such so all it takes to blow the gears is to land into a unseen hole... Belt drives can rotortill!
I've had more trouble with my TT setups by far. That said, I like the lower drag they have and would run them if all my flights were off a hard surface.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › torque tube VS belt drive?
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