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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Campers Fuel vs Gasoline
06-02-2009 12:31 AM  8 years agoPost 41
therapyworx

rrNovice

florence, sc usa

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Deep thought
blazobob

I am not a helifreak and yes I have years of experience building high performance 2-stroke and 4-stroke engines. If you read the zenoah manual on page 6 for the 26cc gas engine it states 89 or higher octane. I also spoke with Desert aircraft, same opininon as me, does DA have enough experience for you. I also was making comments from Zenoah USA and from a chemical engineer for a major US petroleum distiller. What is the big deal. You can research the information yourself or better yet call desert aircraft or zenoah and talk to the engineers who bring a lifetime of experience to their craft and tell them you are more educated because you stand in a field and fly toy aircraft around. But you still did not answer my question. Why take a engine that is specifically designed to run on 89-93 octane unleaded fuel and put coleman campfuel in it. I am not bashing your choice but trying to understand the reasoning for doing it. Like I said would you put it in 911, and if you would why???

Thanks Blazobob for making statements and having absolutely nothing to back them up with. Thats truly experience shining through.

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06-02-2009 01:01 AM  8 years agoPost 42
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Hot Dogs
Smell's like your cooking on a camp stove and is so clean your not afraid to cook over it. Try that with gasoline.

Consistant from gallon to gallon. No ethanol, noclaim to fame octain booster's, or majic injector cleaners, nitrogen /hydrogen addtives or what ever they can toss in.

Minimal or no carbon buildup from running - its almost sterile.

My cylinders, pistons and rings are spanking clean, and I still have the hone marks w/ minimal deposits

No winter blend, spring blend, summer blend.

Different states and various tank farms blend additives on site of the distribution point.

Gasoline can be what ever elixer they happen to deliver at any given day- . Come try some of our corn fuel - or better yet the E- 85 !

Sure it's lower is cost but on my truck I lose about 4 to 6 mpg on the stuff and it runns out the tail pipe like water thru a garden hose.

Two stroke engines great - 4 stroke engines bad.

If I could affort it in my weed eater I'd do it.

greyeagle

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06-02-2009 01:13 AM  8 years agoPost 43
blazobob

rrApprentice

us

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Deep thought

blazobob

I am not a helifreak and yes I have years of experience building high performance 2-stroke and 4-stroke engines. If you read the zenoah manual on page 6 for the 26cc gas engine it states 89 or higher octane. I also spoke with Desert aircraft, same opininon as me, does DA have enough experience for you. I also was making comments from Zenoah USA and from a chemical engineer for a major US petroleum distiller. What is the big deal. You can research the information yourself or better yet call desert aircraft or zenoah and talk to the engineers who bring a lifetime of experience to their craft and tell them you are more educated because you stand in a field and fly toy aircraft around. But you still did not answer my question. Why take a engine that is specifically designed to run on 89-93 octane unleaded fuel and put coleman campfuel in it. I am not bashing your choice but trying to understand the reasoning for doing it. Like I said would you put it in 911, and if you would why???

Thanks Blazobob for making statements and having absolutely nothing to back them up with. Thats truly experience shining through.
therapyworx

Please do yourself a favor , and get some actual experience in the subject you choose to lecture others on . You won't come off as such a complete bore . Looking forward to your next installment

RR Master wannabe

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06-02-2009 01:50 AM  8 years agoPost 44
Blade_Master1

rrElite Veteran

Canada

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http://www.coleman.com/coleman/faq/...asp?question=37
Question
What is Coleman® Fuel?

Answer
Coleman® Fuel is basically petroleum naphtha with a bit of rust inhibitor. It has an octane rating of 50 to 55 and none of the additives found in gasoline. It has a lighter molecular weight than gasoline, kerosene and diesel fuel and cannot be used as a substitute for any of those fuels.

The flammability of Coleman® Fuel is comparable to gasoline but it cannot be used in gasoline engines. It will burn out the valves.

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06-02-2009 01:51 AM  8 years agoPost 45
therapyworx

rrNovice

florence, sc usa

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Still Waiting
Hey blazobob,

Again u still have not answered my question???? Do you have anything whatsoever intelligent to say?? How about give us all your resume. As Winston Churchill said you dont have to be a great man if you surround yourself with great people. I am sure your heli experience smokes mine. As my first post states "HELP NEWBIE". I dont claim to be a HELI EXPERT but like u and everybody else in this hobbie I have a garage full of fixed wing gas, nitro, and electric airplanes laying around. I have been flying rc aircraft as well as the real thing for about 15 years. I have a gentleman in my flight club who has a blade 400 who in real life flys the 747 dream lifter(the real jetliner). When he speaks I listen. Just because he is new to helicopters doesnt make him ignorant to aeronautics or physics. You assume because i am new to helicopters that i know absolutely nothing about anything else.Agin all I asked was why would u made the choice you made. If you made it because everyonelse did or you have mathmatical data to back up your choice then say it!

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06-02-2009 02:32 AM  8 years agoPost 46
blazobob

rrApprentice

us

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Still Waiting

Hey blazobob,

Again u still have not answered my question???? Do you have anything whatsoever intelligent to say?? How about give us all your resume. As Winston Churchill said you dont have to be a great man if you surround yourself with great people. I am sure your heli experience smokes mine. As my first post states "HELP NEWBIE". I dont claim to be a HELI EXPERT but like u and everybody else in this hobbie I have a garage full of fixed wing gas, nitro, and electric airplanes laying around. I have been flying rc aircraft as well as the real thing for about 15 years. I have a gentleman in my flight club who has a blade 400 who in real life flys the 747 dream lifter(the real jetliner). When he speaks I listen. Just because he is new to helicopters doesnt make him ignorant to aeronautics or physics. You assume because i am new to helicopters that i know absolutely nothing about anything else.Agin all I asked was why would u made the choice you made. If you made it because everyonelse did or you have mathmatical data to back up your choice then say it!
therapynoworky

Your first post in this thread was not "HELP NEWBIE".

You actually started out by calling it an inferior fuel and go on with your statement ,

"This is not an opinion it is a mathmatical fact that is undisputable."(sp)

So Coleman fuel has a lighter molecular weight and is hence much more volatile . Without trying it in an engine you are in no position to judge the available power , and whether or not it is suitable to the application .

Now here in your last post , of this thread , you state .
Agin all I asked was why would u made the choice you made
But you end your first post , of this thread , with this statement .
So why is anybody even thinking about it. It is an inferior, engine damaging fuel source
You should try and appreciate that a lot of the statements , you made in your first post of this thread , come off as pretty inflammatory .

You did receive a half dozen reasons why people , that have tried both , are choosing to use camp fuel .

The general opinions of people who use camp fuel seem to be

Engines run noticeably cooler on camp fuel
Less carbon buildup with camp fuel
Camp fuel dosen't stink
Camp fuel is more consistent from gallon to gallon , and year to year than pump gas
How much alcohol are they putting in pump gas today
How much water has that alcohol absorbed
Octane is needed in high compression engines to avoid detonation

Yet you regurgitate that you spoke to Desert Aircraft , some chemical engineer for a major US petroleum distiller , and the Zenoah manual . FYI There are a half dozen other sources that say not to use it in engines , including Coleman . In this day and age , of liability and litigation , it is little surprise that companies would take this tack

And just so you can go away with my answer , here it is , I have tried both and prefer running camp fuel , dosen't much matter to me what or who you have heard your info from , i will stick with my own experience . Might be something you should try sometime .

I think your problem with me is , you come galloping in on your high horse , spattering the fliers in this forum with your crap , and then get upset with me , for slinging a little of it back at you

It is six to one , and a half dozen to the other . Run with which ever one you feel better about and enjoy .

It has been fun , BUT I'll be sitting back with popcorn from here on out , BOB

RR Master wannabe

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06-02-2009 03:27 AM  8 years agoPost 47
Billme

rrElite Veteran

MS

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06-02-2009 03:35 AM  8 years agoPost 48
uk2bx

rrApprentice

Bronx , NY

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I dont have a gasser (although i would like one) , im also not a camper , so where do you get camping fuel?? , just out of interest.

www.flysrw.com

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06-02-2009 03:51 AM  8 years agoPost 49
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Wall Mart
Wallmart, K- Mart, Cabella's, some Tarket's, Some good bait and camp shops

Bill - yer naughty -

greyeagle

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06-02-2009 03:54 AM  8 years agoPost 50
uk2bx

rrApprentice

Bronx , NY

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Cool thanks , i just never noticed it , although i was never looking for it , thanks...

www.flysrw.com

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06-02-2009 12:31 PM  8 years agoPost 51
brokenheli

rrApprentice

gettysburg Pa.

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i use camp gas because i keep my helis in the house and that's the only reason....Ive been flying a MA 1005 gasser for 5 years now..I crashed it last weekend ,not bad, but took it all apart none the less,to replace bearings and go over it well. I inspected the Z-g231 intake side & exhaust side looks great no wear. the higher the cylinder compression, the higher octane to prevent pre-ignition. other than not burning all the additives in pump gas, I don't see the difference. If you want 89 octane add octane boost once again, I use camp gas because i keep my heli's in the house ..Kevin

never stop learning

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06-02-2009 01:27 PM  8 years agoPost 52
greenboot

rrVeteran

Marblehead, OH

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It's not unusual for a theory to conflict with actual test data. Seems like that is what is happening here.

I'm sure glad we have hobbyists willing to try new things!

And I'm glad we have theoretical physicists willing to invent new stuff.

Tom

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06-02-2009 04:22 PM  8 years agoPost 53
GRINCHMAN

rrApprentice

IL

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Darn it, I am out of popcorn. I guess I will have to run out and buy some. I plan on doing some flying this weekend so, I better get some more coleman fuel also.

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06-02-2009 04:39 PM  8 years agoPost 54
chuck4040

rrApprentice

Kirkville, NY Syracuse Thunderbirds

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Have seen and read about this argument many times - to me there is no correct answer - whatever works for you is the best there is.

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning"

Invertix

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06-02-2009 05:10 PM  8 years agoPost 55
Wayne Parrish

rrVeteran

Apex,NC,USA

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WOW, I can't believe that this issue is still being beat to death !! Do a search and you can see that this subject has been answered MANY times over.

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06-02-2009 05:22 PM  8 years agoPost 56
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South Carolina

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therapyworx

I know of this friend that you speak of that has a Quick gasser and couldn't run the engine after camp fuel. The camper fuel HAS NOTHING to do with the issues that he was having.

Did you know that Zenoah also states not to run any ethanol in their engines? What are you going to do with that pump gas that has ethanol in it? Also Zenoah says no more than 89 octane.....have you ran higher than that?

I broke in my 26cc with regular gas because of convience and price. When gas went up to 4 bucks the other year I went ahead and tried Coleman. The engine ran noticeably better, the tuning stayed the same and no stinky smell in my car when I transport my heli, or in the house which is where I keep all of my helis. There is a LOT less carbon build up as well. So now after at least 10 gallons of Coleman so far burned without one issue the only way I would burn regular gas is if I could not find any camper fuel.

Don't mean to sound "preachy" but honey gets you a lot further than vinegar.. It's kind of rude to come on here as someone with less than 10 posts and tell folks that have been doing this for years that they are all wrong.. I don't care how many chemist, scientist, or other industry professionals you quote. This board has some guys that have been flying gassers since someone decided to put a gas engine on a heli......and if they fly camp fuel, that is good enough for me.

I know some guys who just prefer to use gas....and that is just fine as well. Actually I have a good friend that flys DA's engines and other gas engines on his planks and he had never heard of using camp fuel. He thought it was impossible, that the engine would not even run. After he saw me flying my gasser heli.......guess what he uses now? His reason.....it doesn't stink.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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06-02-2009 05:35 PM  8 years agoPost 57
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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How much!!!!
Looked up the price online for Coleman Camper fuel here in the good old UK,an absolute bargain at nearly 10 of your U.S dollars for ,Wait for it,half a litre!!!!Think i will be sticking with pump gas and nose plugs for now $100 bucks for five litres,WOW.

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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06-02-2009 05:37 PM  8 years agoPost 58
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South Carolina

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Yea.....but the average income in the UK is about 40k a year higher than in the good ol US......but that's another topic...

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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06-02-2009 05:41 PM  8 years agoPost 59
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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We all wish
The only well off people here are our Politicians,OH and Simon Cowell of course

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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06-02-2009 06:05 PM  8 years agoPost 60
Dr. Fibinotchi

rrKey Veteran

Sioux Falls SD

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hehe
I bought a giant thing of popcorn for this yearlly thread.

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Campers Fuel vs Gasoline
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