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T-REX 500 › $100 6S A123 PACK AVAILABLE trex 500 or 600
03-23-2009 05:19 AM  8 years agoPost 81
soarman

rrNovice

Barstow, Ca

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The phoenix 60 require an external bec when more than 3 cells are used,
I got this one, http://www.dimensionengineering.com/SportBEC.htm
have used there product for awhile in a plane.

Steve

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03-23-2009 12:40 PM  8 years agoPost 82
mmc205

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PA - USA

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phoenix 60 should work fine. I just had one burn up on spoolup but seemed like a freak accident. I'm not sure what happened as it wasn't even under any kind of load. I looked for binding of the main gear, shorts, etc... and found nothing. tested the scorpion motor with another speed control and it works fine. Might have just been its time to go.... sent it to castle for repairs. I would still rocommend a phoneix 60 but if i could do it all over again i would get a phonix hv 45 so i could run 8S in the future. for sport, i dont' get my amps over about 37 with th 6S a123 so the hv 45 should work fine. with 8S it would have tons of power even at only 45 amps (peaks could be higher, probably 55 amps or so)

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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03-24-2009 09:43 AM  8 years agoPost 83
tacoturbo

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Kauai, Hawaii

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No need for the BEC. I don't use one with the 123 setup. I did however get the USB program cord for the Pheonix 60 so I could reprogram the LVC to 2v per cell. I like the setup that mmc205 recommended. Made me a believer...again.

TT

I don't do 3D....no wait. Oh thats right, I can't do 3D!

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03-24-2009 08:35 PM  8 years agoPost 84
mmc205

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PA - USA

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interesting, i didn't know the pheonix could handle bec on 6S A123. Now i know

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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03-30-2009 11:27 AM  8 years agoPost 85
chadtyro

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Dowagiac, MI

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Good to read the positive feedback. I'm going to be heading down this road as well with the A123s. How are you guys liking the Phoenix 60 esc? Is there any need for an external bec with the Phoenix 60?

Thanks
Victor
Yes. You need a separate BEC. It may work otherwise, but how long is a gamble of not if, but when. Per Castle's website:
Lipo Cells w/BEC 3S max
Lipo Cells NO BEC 6S max
Chad

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03-31-2009 07:57 PM  8 years agoPost 86
soarman

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Barstow, Ca

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OK here's my take, Ordered a tach and 14 tooth pinion,I found 2100
HS to be low and lazy feeling for me, Did not tach the 15 tooth with the zippy 3300 5cell, curve 95 75 95, I'm guessing 2500 heli felt nice. A123 setup 95 84 95 gives me 2430 HS w/14t battery dumps @ 7min 14sec , timer set @ 6 minutes for ff and mild 3d.
BPhobbies called letting me know more A123's in stock "ordered 2",
will have 3 A123 and 2 5s 3300 zippy's. Sport flying it's hard to tell
between the 2, lipo has a little more zip but takes 55 minutes to charge, the A123 10 amp 13 minutes to charge.So it's A123 for me, and if these things are good for a 1000 cycles 3 batts will last a long time.
Thanks MMC205 and TacoTurbo for the info

Steve

ESP 500
K&B tail blades with Chinese weight mod
CC60
BEC
A123w/14t 95-84-95 solid feel
2400+ HS, but haven't tested 2200 or 2300 yet

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04-01-2009 07:16 PM  8 years agoPost 87
tacoturbo

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Kauai, Hawaii

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My big bad! Chadtyro is right you do need a BEC. I installed a cheapo Turnigy unit I had in my parts box and it works great. As iI recall this one was like 12 dollars from HC and rated up to 23V which is good. Sorry for the wrong info earlier. On a side note, my DX6i died a few days ago. Had to bite the bullet and spend more money for a DX7.

I don't do 3D....no wait. Oh thats right, I can't do 3D!

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04-02-2009 03:30 AM  8 years agoPost 88
soarman

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Barstow, Ca

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MMC205, Question regrading TC, Messing with my new tach, build a stand to hold it so son doesn't have to, I believe it to be reading correct,
passes calibration test. curve of 85-82.5-77-82.5-85 give me 2300 HS
which I'll fly Sat see how it performs, If set curve 95 I'm around 2430, I have the stock 500L motor, pitch is +-11 . How about Tacoturbo
are you running 500L?. MMC205 you 14t with aggressive curve and taching
2100, just curious.

all testing done with hot off charger A123

Thanks Steve

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04-02-2009 08:35 AM  8 years agoPost 89
tacoturbo

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Kauai, Hawaii

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Man, I don't have a tach. I use the stock motor on a 14t pinion and it seems to fly just fine. Good combo of power and flight time. I have no clue as to what my HS is. So far I've been really liking the A123 as I don't need insane power. I prefer smooth agressive sport flying to 3D anyway.

TT

I don't do 3D....no wait. Oh thats right, I can't do 3D!

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04-02-2009 01:00 PM  8 years agoPost 90
mmc205

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PA - USA

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soarman,
first off, i'm running the scorpion 1600kv motor, which is same kv as stock but runs a bit more efficiently. for argurments sake lets say it puts out the same loaded rpm.

my headspeed is 2100-2200 but i read mine a bit differently. let me explain.

My thery on setting headspeed is this. set the pitch you would like to attain (+/- 11 on my 500) then set your throttle endpoints at 100%. tach your blades at either end of the throttle stick. this will correspond to full throttle, full pitch. read your rpm. now go through the rest of your curve and set your other throttle points so that the rpm matches. my curve looks something like 100-85-75-85-100

what this does is ensure your headspeed holds reguardless of collectiv position. this makes your tail more stable as it doesn't have to deal with speed changes in the head. now if i set my throttle at 85% or 100% at 0 pitch, i could probably get about 2400-2500 rpm. this is a nice number but if i set a flat curve it will bog at the ends and the tail might not hold. seeing as i generally use full pitch in emergencies sometimes when i really want the tail to do what its supposed to, i set it up my way. so long story short, my headspeed is 2100 or so, but everyone else running 14T on the stock or equivalent rpm motor probbly has the same headspeed at full pitch and just never reads its there. try this method, you won't have the higher 0 pitch headspeed but you will have a very stable heli. if you want to go one step further, up your pinion, do the same method but put your throttle curve endpoints at 85-90% and make a aileron-throttle and elevator-throttle mix of 10-15%
you will have a unboggable heli. people think you need rediculous power to make a a heli unboggable, but really you just need to set up properly within the limits of your power system.
hope this helps.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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04-02-2009 01:03 PM  8 years agoPost 91
mmc205

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PA - USA

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taco, i'm so glad your enjoying your a123 setup. i'd be out flying right now but i have to watch my 1 yr old son. he's sick and not too happy about it... couple more yours and i'll put the transmitter in his hands
by then there will probably be something even better than a123's
he he can't wait.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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04-02-2009 02:20 PM  8 years agoPost 92
soarman

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Barstow, Ca

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Thanks MMC205, I've been setting it up your way from the beginning
and it does work great, now that I have 3 A123's the Nitro urge is fading fast.

put the tach away and just fly

Steve

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04-02-2009 04:34 PM  8 years agoPost 93
mmc205

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PA - USA

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hmmm, now you've got me wondering why my headspeed isn't 200 rpm higher or so. maybe difference in blades or my 1600kv motor is closer to 1500 kv. i know manufacturers will tell you kv is +/- 10% or so. also, i usually tested with the a123's starting out at room temperature. probably would be better hot off the charger.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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04-03-2009 01:15 AM  8 years agoPost 94
tacoturbo

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Kauai, Hawaii

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by then there will probably be something even better than a123's
he he can't wait.

By then we'll have the "flux Capacitor" and we won't need no stinkin' batteries hahahaha.

TT

I don't do 3D....no wait. Oh thats right, I can't do 3D!

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04-03-2009 01:54 AM  8 years agoPost 95
soarman

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Barstow, Ca

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mmc205!

Thinking about this all day, can you borrow a tach?
I'm sure your in hi 23 low 24 range.

Tacoturbo

Did you burn up your cc60? thought I read that somewhere.

Steve

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04-03-2009 08:25 AM  8 years agoPost 96
tacoturbo

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Kauai, Hawaii

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No, I thought I did 'cause it was very hot and smelled really bad! I took the chance and installed a Turnigy BEC and it ran fine. I hovered a couple of packs worth and zero issues. I guess the CC60 was just letting me know it was not too happy. All is good. Maybe these Pheonix 60's are tough buggers afterall.

TT

I don't do 3D....no wait. Oh thats right, I can't do 3D!

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04-03-2009 01:32 PM  8 years agoPost 97
mmc205

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PA - USA

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I did the readings with an eagle tree, but i just remembered, i only did the readings on a 13 tooth. so i have to try it again with the 14t
that explains it....

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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04-03-2009 01:34 PM  8 years agoPost 98
mmc205

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PA - USA

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if you ever get the hankering taco, try the castle creations bec. I really like it. Its a small switching regulator that can handle up to 6S. using the castle link you can program it for whatever voltage you want in 0.1v incriments. they are about $20-$25 in most cases.

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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04-08-2009 12:23 AM  8 years agoPost 99
mmc205

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PA - USA

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thought i would post a eagle tree graph of my current setup
6S A123
15T pinion
scorpion 3026-1600 motor
425 blades
95-87-95 throttle curve

Power felt adequete but not crazy, i lost a bit of headspeed on punchouts and hard pitch pumping (+/- 11 degrees full stick travel in about 1-2 second increments)
I compared this to my lipo graphs, and saw a difference of about 50 watts in a hover, with the a123's being more watt hungry for similar hover headspeed. since my setup weight is identical, i think i can attribute this to my motor being outside its bet efficiency range due to the rather high pinion tooth count i'm using (15T). basiclly i'm running a lower voltage system than a 6S lipo and even though my total power output is the same (about 770 watts peak) the higher amps in teh a123 system that are needed to reach the same power yield some inneficiency. If one were to do this setup from go, i would size the motor kv such that its spinning about 30K and use a 10-12T pinion. that won't make up the difference from a lower voltage system but it would help a bit I know lucien from innovative did say that you want the motor spinning pretty good because you gain more efficiency and the momentum of the spinnning can helps you in extreme power maneuvers, but not really sustained power maneuvers. so far, i'm happy with this setup and i believe i'll fly like this for a while

***Logo 600 vbar***Henseleit TDR vbar***

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04-08-2009 01:15 AM  8 years agoPost 100
dave75d

rrKey Veteran

Jacksonville, FL

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im hoping my a123 6s get here tomorrow, am i going to be disappointed with the 13t?

ten grand in helis and all i can do is hover

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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
Helicopter
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T-REX 500 › $100 6S A123 PACK AVAILABLE trex 500 or 600
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