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HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › O.S. .32 cut out
12-28-2008 07:48 PM  8 years agoPost 1
Chansey Dog

rrNovice

Forest Hill, MD -​USA

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I was flying my hawk yesterday and the engine suddenly cut out about six feet off the ground. There was no damage to the heli but now the engine will not start. I replaced the fuel tubing and checked the glow plug and it glows real bright. The high speed needle was out about 1 3/4 turns so I don't think it was lean (lots of smoke from exhaust also). I was using 30% Wildcat fuel. Any ideas what's going on here? Thanks.

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12-28-2008 09:07 PM  8 years agoPost 2
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Unless something actually broke inside the motor, a motor won't start for one of two reasons.

No glow plug heat.
No fuel/incorrect fuel mixture.

There is no magic to making a motor start and run.

Replace the plug, even if it glows nice and bright. It's a cheap, easy troubleshooting step.

If you checked ALL fuel line, including that inside the tank(s), all external lines, as well as the tightness of your muffler (if it's loose, you go lean and can hurt the 32 easily).

If you use an in-line fuel filter, see if it's plugged, clean or replace as necessary. If you don't use a fuel filter, check the carb for blockages (and install an in-line filter OR filter the fuel as you pump it into the tank.

This can be done by opening the carb barrel all the way, removing the main needle valve, and connecting a short piece of fuel tubing to the carb inlet nipple. Plug the hole where the needle valve was with your finger, and alternately blow/suck on the hose. If there is any blockage in the carb, this should easily clear it, and you should be able to figure out if there was a blockage.

Close the carb barrel, take your finger off the hole where the main needle was, repeat the blow/suck thing on the hose. Again, you should be able to detect and clear a blockage.

One last thing is to insert the end of the hose into the hole where the needle valve would normally go, and do the blow/suck thing one more time. Any obstructions should be cleared out by doing these three steps.

If you have a good plug, the fuel lines are good, the muffler is tight, the carb is not plugged, there is no reason your motor should not start and run, if the motor is mechanically sound.

I'll assume the fuel is good, unless it's an old jug that has been sitting around partially full and not tightly capped.

And you might try opening the carb just a bit more when you try to start the motor. Make sure you have a good grip on the rotor head, however so you don't get whacked if it starts.

-----

If you still can't get it to start, it might be time for you to remove it from the heli and dismantle it, looking for internal damage.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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12-29-2008 04:26 AM  8 years agoPost 3
David Blain

rrKey Veteran

Mt. Dora, Florida​(USA)

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Chancey Dog-
Let me add simple BUT possible answers to your problems also...
1)I'll go with dkshema that IF you are not sure of the condition or age of the fuel or it may have the POSSIBILITY of having moisture in it, TRASH IT! Moisture is the enemy of Fuel, You did not describe how long it ran so if it did start and ran for a short time, this could be one of the problems...beg borrow steal some good new fuel or call a buddy to borrow a half tank of his..

2)Okay with fuel covered now, you stated you checked your glow plug and it glowed well! Good to know, BUT this is no good if your using a glow lead extension that has gone bad! It happens, Many pilots chase thier tail around "sure the glow is good" but find out the ground for the glow extension has failed or the wiring is oil soaked and decayed... These are prone to failure from age, wear, oil etc..
Yeah, Glow is good but only if you can ignite it...

So from these TWO simple things, Try a new gallon of fuel and connect the Glow igniter (that is fully charged!!!!) directly to the glow plug...

NOW please let us know how you make out and we can help you from the next step....

Pull-n-Pitch

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12-29-2008 05:27 AM  8 years agoPost 4
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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BUT this is no good if your using a glow lead extension that has gone bad!
That's what I like about the Radio South Pro Driver III ignitor, it has those nifty little LEDs to let you know that your glow plug is indeed getting the juice through the remote extension....

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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12-29-2008 08:16 AM  8 years agoPost 5
Chansey Dog

rrNovice

Forest Hill, MD -​USA

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Great info and thanks for your replies!

So tonight I replaced the glow plug (it is way brighter than the old one), picked up some new fuel (yes the fuel I was using is from the summer and when I compared it to the new fuel it seemed much more viscous), added a fuel line filter, and checked the carb which was clean.

Does a thicker fuel mean that it has water vapor in it? I think old fuel was my problem because it flew for about a minute and then died.

I also checked the ignitor extension by attaching the plug to the wire then touching the plug to the engine and it seemed to glow real hot.

Tomorrow I will try it out and see what happens. Thanks for all of your help!

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12-29-2008 09:26 AM  8 years agoPost 6
nivlek

rrProfessor

Norfolk England

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If it was a bad fuel issue , it could well cause inconsistant running , but as the engine stopped dead and then refused to restart , that doesn't sound like bad fuel to me , it sounds more like a fuel supply isuue. Check that the pressure fitting on the exhaust isn't blocked .
When you say that you replaced the fuel tubing , does that include the tubing within the fuel tank ?

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

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12-29-2008 01:07 PM  8 years agoPost 7
chris6414

rrApprentice

Sneads Ferry, NC USA

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Re-Tune

Cut out sounds lean. You didn't mention how long has this bird been in the air. New problem when it was flying good? I have a Hawk Sport and also fly the .32. It took me awhile to get the tuning down as I am also a plank pilot and they just tune differently. If she will idle well, I would start it and let it warm up with a minute of ground turning at about 1/4 throttle to let her warm up. Then bring the throttle to idle and see what it does. If it idles ultra smooth, pinch test the the tubing close to the carb and count to see how long it takes to speed up. Should be 3-7 seconds. If more than 7 she is rich and can put out the plug in a hover. Faster than 3 seconds and she is lean. After that check your transition from idle to light hover. If she doesn't gurgle a little on transistion adjust the LS needle till she does. (richen) Then back it back off a little to keep the LS just inside of rich. The LS on the .32 is tuned all the way past idle. IE hover. I would also open up the HS some more(1/4 turn) I know the manual says 1 1/2 but I think mine is open a little more for winter flying. The .32 will talk to you once it is running. If she cackles in a hover then the LS is still a little lean or the throttle pitch curve are not right. The "Cackle" will take about 15-40 seconds to appear as the engine heats up. I set my Hawk to the manual and don't fly 3D. Pitch at hover should be aroun 5-6 degress and at the top I wouldn't put in more than 9 with the .32. I also bring my throttle up to about 85% at the 4th pitch point to maintain some headspeed with the increased load. I also tune down my idle 1 setting so when the disc unloads on a steep approach she won't overspeed. Also check your backplate temps after a 30-40 second hover. Too hot to touch then it is lean. You should be able to hold your finger for 3-5 seconds or more. Also, as a final HS needle adjust, I get the hover all set than take it for a lap then bring it back in and then do a full throttle climb out and look/listen to see if she starts to load up during the climb. Should have good smoke and RPMs should bleed off slightly and maintain during the climb. If she boggs bad with a ton of smoke then you can lean the HS a little at a time till you get it in. This is why I would start a little rich here. If she is too lean she could cut out in the climb then it's auto time! If she is a little rich she will climb good for about 1-3 seconds then rpms will fall off pretty quick so you have time to let off and bring her back for some more tuning. Good luck with your Hawk.

Chris

Century Hawk Sport, OS .32, Futaba 7C, GY-601 9251
Predator Gasser SE G-23, Fut 3010 servos, JR gyro/servo

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12-29-2008 04:53 PM  8 years agoPost 8
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Keep in mind that the low-speed needle of the 32's 20C carburetor affects the full-speed needle setting up to around 75% or 80% throttle setting. If your low speed needle is too lean, your top end will seem rich, and as you lean out the top end to correct it, you'll suddenly go over lean and have serious problems.

Adjust IDLE speed using your throttle trim tab. Adjust the LOW SPEED needle to get a reasonably good transition from idle to about 3/4 throttle. Use the high speed needle to get the top end right.

One thing that's always in the back of my mind when a motor just flat stops with no warning is imminent failure of the rear bearing, with bits of bearing steel flaking off the races, getting to the plug, and putting out the fire instantly.

It's uncommon in the 32, but can happen.

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Fuel with water in it is not easy to distinguish just by sight. The bottle of fuel can look perfectly good, but you will get erratic running. The motor may run just peachy keen, then stop suddenly at any throttle setting, or you may have a very finicky motor that won't idle, or transition well. If in doubt, try a fresh gallon.

Fuel, if tightly capped and properly stored does not "go bad". Just keep moisture out by capping at all times unless you're actually filling or emptying the tank.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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12-29-2008 07:14 PM  8 years agoPost 9
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Dave is surely correct about the bearing.

Do try some different fuel since that's such any easy possible cause to rule out.

The more air that is sitting over whatever is left in the jug of fuel, the lower the level of fuel in the jug is, and the longer it has been stored that way, the more I get suspicious of bad fuel. This is especially true in my part of the world where humidity is generally quite high.

Ben Minor

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