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T-REX 450 › Balancing the flybar, how do you do it?
12-27-2008 12:06 PM  8 years agoPost 1
LaurenceGough

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Reading, UK

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Hey guys, just wondering how people are balancing there flybars?

I've always just measured the mm's out from the cage too the paddle start, and got it as close as I can while still being at the right angle each side. Sometimes doing it this way it can still be out a little due to getting the right angle... I also measure the flybar for dead on equal length each side before installing the paddles.

Now are people using gram scales to weigh there paddles? (I don't have one yet and I'm thinking about buying one...)

Are people using some kind of balancing while it's on the heli? (lowest side down is heavier etc)

My plan is to buy some 0.00 gram scales and then get both paddles the same and then do what I did before and measure the mm's out on both the paddles and the flybar. Sound good?

Thanks!

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12-27-2008 12:28 PM  8 years agoPost 2
Mefly

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New Fairfield Ct

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Perfect

Where's Carlos?

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12-27-2008 02:56 PM  8 years agoPost 3
bah7566

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Colorado

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Technex,

All of your ideas sound fine. Measuring, balance the paddles with a scale. I usually take the complete head assembly with the main shaft and balance the entire thing at once on a High point or Du-bro balancer.

I am a Heli addict!!!

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12-27-2008 03:11 PM  8 years agoPost 4
LaurenceGough

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Reading, UK

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Yeah, I've got two of them. Although I was thinking actually balancing the paddles before installing them would be better then just fixing it somewhere else? I really am not sure...

Could you explain a bit more on how you balance your heads with it? I've tried adding tape to the flybar which goes upwards before (until it would stay put after spinning) but in flight it always had worse vibrations :/.

I done mine without blades as the Radix's are perfect out of the box every time.

And thanks!

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12-27-2008 03:27 PM  8 years agoPost 5
bah7566

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Colorado

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Yes, I balance the head without the main blades. I will use tracking tape or fancy stickers that come in the kit and apply them to the paddles to make the unit balance.

I am a Heli addict!!!

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12-27-2008 03:39 PM  8 years agoPost 6
LaurenceGough

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Reading, UK

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Damn... That's what I'm doing :/.

Just to make it clear the complete head mounted on the main shaft with swashplate and links or without?

There must be something I'm doing different :/.

Some people say to do it with the blades, but I don't think that's a good idea myself, perhaps it is? I don't know.. I should have thought if the blades are balanced then it shouldn't really matter...

Thanks again too!

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12-27-2008 03:49 PM  8 years agoPost 7
bah7566

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Colorado

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I balance it with the links and all. I will however remove any links that will hang down as the unit spins because I believe these will give a false reading.

I am a Heli addict!!!

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12-27-2008 11:02 PM  8 years agoPost 8
LaurenceGough

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Reading, UK

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Will give it another go, cheers!

Any other tips for perfect head balance?

I'll just add the tape around the leading edge of the middle (does it matter where?) of the light paddle, until it spins and doesn't move in any position on the balancer - with the swashplate but no loose links, should work fine right?

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12-28-2008 03:11 AM  8 years agoPost 9
bah7566

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Colorado

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That all sounds good. It should be just fine once you have it so it stops spinning at random locations. Right or wrong that's how I do it and it has worked fine for me so far.

I don't think it matters where you add the tape but the middle sounds most logical to me.

I am a Heli addict!!!

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12-28-2008 05:00 PM  8 years agoPost 10
MikeInMobile

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Mobile, Alabama

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The best way that I have found is to balance the flybar WITHOUT the paddles first!

After this is balanced PERFECTLY, put the paddles on and rebalance the assembly. You can make slight changes to the balance by threading the heavy paddle on a turn or two, very minor changes can be made by adding a single drop of CA to the light paddle at the outboard tip. Next, install the feathering shaft and blade grips and balance again. The heavy grip can be sanded slightly on the outboard most tip to achieve a perfect balance. Last, bolt the blades in and balance again AFTER the blades have been statically balanced. This procedure can also be used with the tail shaft!

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12-29-2008 10:03 AM  8 years agoPost 11
LaurenceGough

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Reading, UK

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Alright thanks for the help guys, all noted.

Just a quick question. My flybar has about 1mm of lateral play, so I guess if it moves to one side it can make that side heavier and vice versa. Now I can't remove it and the flybar cage is designed to have it (I asked).

So I guess I will have to balance without locking it?

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12-29-2008 02:46 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Gunner

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Richmond, Va. - USA

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Technex, squeeze the flybar cage with your fingers until there is no slop. You should be able to squeeze 1mm out of it. The tricky part is to make sure that the length of the flybar is equal after you squeeze the cage and tighten up the set screws. I usually tighten 1 set screw and leave that end 1mm longer. Then I squeeze the cage and tighten the second set screw. That way, the other end of the flybar now lengthens by the amount of your squeeze, which should be about 1mm. Just experiment until you get it right and there is no slop.

Gunner
Fusion 50, Pantera 50, Tiger 50
Walkera 4F200LM, T-REX 450 SA

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12-29-2008 02:50 PM  8 years agoPost 13
WRXRonald

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Auburn, OH

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...

interesting, I don't remember that much lateral play in my flybar, will have to check closely when I get home. Seems that would be enough to throw balance off.

Far as balancing paddles - - I use a 0.00 Gram scale. Get the weights identical down to +/- .01 or .02 grams and they should run pretty clean on the heli.

Then I install and measure with caliper to ensure same distance from the flybar cage. Never had much issue from there.

If you think about it, there is already a bunch of slop in the Align 450 alum head anyways... Depends on your servo's slop and your washout hub, but avoiding some degree of play (few mm) is just not very realistic i don't think. If you get your paddles within hundreths of a gram and use a little square of Scotch-tape to balance (very thin and un-obtrusive to the surface - I think you want to keep the tape close to the leading edge), it should perform just fine.

Good Day: crashed thx to dumb thumbs. Bad Day: crashed mechanical malfunction. Every Day: CRASH :)

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12-29-2008 02:59 PM  8 years agoPost 14
MikeInMobile

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Mobile, Alabama

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The flybar cage SHOULDN'T have that much play (1 mm is a LOT of play ... there shouldn't be more than 1/4mm of play in the flybar cage). If yoy have that much play, you should use some washers to remove the play BEFORE balancing the flybar!

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12-29-2008 03:14 PM  8 years agoPost 15
WRXRonald

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Auburn, OH

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...

Thanks Mike, I thought so too. I don't have mine handy to check but that seemed like alot. I don't remember any to be honest... maybe a sheet of paper's width or something.... but very little "lateral" movement should be noticeable. That would throw your balance off more than unbalanced stock flybar paddles that are pretty close to begin with in flying weight. Most mine have ever need to balance was a small square or two of Scotch-tape - - - That you know doesn't weigh much at all.

Good Day: crashed thx to dumb thumbs. Bad Day: crashed mechanical malfunction. Every Day: CRASH :)

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12-29-2008 05:58 PM  8 years agoPost 16
LaurenceGough

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Reading, UK

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Well it's on a Dragonus 450 head with a e-copter flybar cage.

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/a...gonusradix3.jpg

I've been told that's how it's designed and it's there for a reason, they're really made from a top grade aluminium and precision CNC'ed.

Maybe 1mm was to much, I would say about half a mil to 3/4. Can fit one washer in but no more, not much good as it will be permanently to one side.

And I repeat I'm told by the designer that this is how it's meant to be, even though it may be no good for balancing... (I don't see how but that's what I've been told)

Seems like I can't do it any other way then with a gram scale with the paddles.

Thanks all.

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12-29-2008 06:53 PM  8 years agoPost 17
WRXRonald

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Auburn, OH

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huh...

the desinger can't explain why that 1mm is alotted, yet other proven setups, including the original parts for the heli, allow for almost no movement? Seems a bit odd to me, do you notice any ill fated flight characteristics with the bird?

I just don't see any point to play in that area. My cage moves up/down very freely, despite no play - of course the shaft rides on ball bearings - so that makes sense.

I'm trying imagine the physics of a rotating head and 1mm of play.... best I can place, if you have even the slightest imbalance in the paddles or left to right across the system, you're going to see the system ALWAYS 1mm longer on one side than on the other, to the heavier side of the system - - meaning you'll load that side even more as it will become 1mm longer on its side and 1mm shorter on the opposing side.

Maybe i'm overthinking it and I tried to check out your linky but for some reason the bank no like me visting that site here at work. I'll check it tonight at home. I'm curious now- Is this supposed to be a good upgrade from the Align head, or an inexpensive metal head replacment?

Good Day: crashed thx to dumb thumbs. Bad Day: crashed mechanical malfunction. Every Day: CRASH :)

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12-29-2008 08:02 PM  8 years agoPost 18
LaurenceGough

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Reading, UK

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Something about self balance I think it was, I don't know but you're more than welcome to ask the designer here: (He said he's tested to 3500rpm with no vibrations)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=11508

From memory even with the stock flybar arms with no slop it had the same vibration.

Here is a picture of it uploaded to RR.

Here is a link to the description:

http://www.arkinnovations.com/shop/...products_id=826

It flies great other than the small/medium vibrations, cyclic is fine, flies mild 3D perfect my best flying heli by far. Doesn't seem to be effecting the gyro at all but I want to up the pinion to 13T (3200rpm) one day and I know the heli's going to self destruct in the air.

Well I've heard it flies better than the Align head on Trex's and some users are replacing the Trex head with them. I'm not going to get into this I just needed some help with vibrations. It's on a Dragonus 450. I love it to bits does everything I want, just the vibration which is annoying me.

Thanks!

www.laurencegough.com
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12-29-2008 08:30 PM  8 years agoPost 19
WRXRonald

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Auburn, OH

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huh...

I've seen that head design somewhere else before... Stared and staredat the pics and can't for the life of me figure out how it works the blade grips, but the one pic doesn't show the whole setup. I will go look at some other pics to get a better 'grip'.

The grips remind me alot of the Sparrow blade grips for Trex... those were some of the first metal blade grips to hit and I got them quite a long time back, worked good.

Glad you're happy with the heli - - the vibes will definitely shake a bird apart and will shake loose anything that is not loctite'd securely, so maybe be weary of that.

Far as the vibes go - it really suggests an imbalance somehow/somewhere.

Have you checked your mainshaft and tail shaft in close detail, rolling them on glass or a mirror? Does it track perfectly? a tenth of a gram or two in the paddles is not going to cause you that much vibe... But 1mm long on one side and 1mm short on other will certainly get you the vibes. IF it self-balances and that's how its supposed to work, then great.

But it seems to me you're going to have to rule out a bunch of other potential issues before you can be sure. Unless you're flybar paddles are significantly different in weight, I doubt that's it is all.

To focus on the flybar assembly, can you remove the bar and paddles itself and spool 'er that way, while on the ground. See if it vibes at all. That would really help rule the area "out" or "in" in terms of what to look at next.

Good luck I hope you get it worked out.

Good Day: crashed thx to dumb thumbs. Bad Day: crashed mechanical malfunction. Every Day: CRASH :)

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12-29-2008 08:40 PM  8 years agoPost 20
LaurenceGough

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Reading, UK

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Yeah no worries I check it over before every flight and always use loctite while working on her.

I've replaced about every part twice, main shaft is dead straight tested on flat surfaces (not to mention I've tried 3 hardened ones). rebuilt her 2 times fully from the skids up. (I've even gone back to the plastic head which was the same)

Without the head on (main shaft up) there are no vibes, well at least when on the ground holding the tailboom at full RPM. This is with the tail blades on.

With head on and main blades, there are no vibes at all while on the ground, even at full RPM.

All sounds good right?

And indeed, it is until you take off from the ground where the little/medium vibe starts up...

Something tells me this is a unusual type of vibe? I just wish I knew what's causing it.

Thanks very much for your help!

www.laurencegough.com
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T-REX 450 › Balancing the flybar, how do you do it?
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