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HelicopterMain Discussion › Flybar-less Q's?
12-24-2008 11:28 AM  8 years agoPost 21
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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The mikado has 3 axis sensor so its conscious of piros. if it is off or not depends on the piro optimization (which you can adjust). The Sk360 is a 2 axis system so it isn't aware of piruetting.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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12-24-2008 11:34 AM  8 years agoPost 22
raptorheli2

rrElite Veteran

rip off britain and​no changing it

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tony, it has 3 axis but it doesn't report it back to the brains from what i know so it isn't concious. there is little need to report it back should everything be tweaked correctly i'm sure.

cheers


www.waterfoothelis.com

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12-24-2008 12:10 PM  8 years agoPost 23
chopperben1

rrApprentice

Ontario, Canada

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My $0.02 is that flybarless technology needs to move a couple of steps further forward before I'll try it again. I put a v-bar on a trex600E, and I endedup spending too much time fiddling with it and not enough time in the air, so I went back to the flybar. I will try it again sometime, but at this point, I don't get permission from the wife often enough to spend time at the flying field to justify the time commitment that flybarless requires.

I does seem like good technology though, and I'd like to fully use it some day.

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12-24-2008 01:06 PM  8 years agoPost 24
HAV

rrNovice

Central Florida

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For me, D in the first section got the better of A&B in the second. No regrets at all. It is interesting and enjoyable to fly the changes made to the SK360. Learning Vbar is next for the same reasons. HAV

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12-24-2008 02:59 PM  8 years agoPost 25
jbdww

rrElite Veteran

Round Rock, Texas

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I use the SK360 on a 450 and while I am doing a piro it is almost like I am also giving it elevator at the same time. What I have figured out is the SK360 requires fast servos and mine are not that fast.

I like flybarless because I am a computer / electronics person so this is right up my ally. I also like the fact that I can change the behavior as I fly so if I want stable during take off and landing or doing simple circuit then I have one mode for that but if I wont to go crazy during 3D maneuvers then I have another mode. I also got tired of buying different paddles to try out different fly characteristics.

Skids Up
http://www.jbdww.com
http://twitter.com/jbdww/

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12-24-2008 03:29 PM  8 years agoPost 26
3Dx

rrElite Veteran

Monterrey NL

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For me its worthy, I love it bad, just with the extra power justifys for me.
Well also because the simplify mechanics, I love that as well.

Inkspot capture my attention at Orlando FF, he told me that from his opinion FBL stuff has make me fly a little better

Inkspot you are a bad boy!!!

See what you did??? I have bought 30 vbars!! I will send you the bill!!

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12-24-2008 04:20 PM  8 years agoPost 27
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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30 VBARS!!!! Are you insane!!! $13,500 in Vbars is DEFINITELY an investment!.......Ron

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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12-24-2008 05:26 PM  8 years agoPost 28
3Dx

rrElite Veteran

Monterrey NL

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LOL they are not all those 30 for me, I ordered some for my lazy friends

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12-24-2008 08:51 PM  8 years agoPost 29
gian

rrVeteran

AZ

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tchavei mentions "ghost hand" effect with the V-bar. Has anyone achieved this level of stability with their 360? I've been tweaking obvious parameters, but what are the key elements to satisfy "ghost hand"?

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12-25-2008 02:00 AM  8 years agoPost 30
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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tony, it has 3 axis but it doesn't report it back to the brains from what i know so it isn't concious. there is little need to report it back should everything be tweaked correctly i'm sure
I can assure you it is conscious and thats why some people experience wierd effects.

Simple example would be you doing a FFF pass holding a little elevator (to keep the nose down) and then give full rudder. The Vbar will hold and shift the previous elevator command and the bird will piro will keeping the nose down attitude and keep on flying strait ahead.

Now this will also cause wierd effects because we are used to how a normal flybarred heli behave. For example, if you give full elevator (to make a forward flip) and then, while holding elevator and while you're vertical, give rudder for 90 degrees, a normal heli will start to roll to the right or left because the axis has changed. On a Vbared heli (and because the vbar is conscious of what the tail is doing) it will keep the forward flip while the bird is piruetting. So either you change the way you do piroflip (lead with rudder, not with cyclic) or you're going to have wierd effects. Any cyclic input given AFTER rudder won't be shifted, but any input initiated before rudder, will be shifted on all axis when you give rudder.

I hope I made myself clear
tchavei mentions "ghost hand" effect with the V-bar. Has anyone achieved this level of stability with their 360? I've been tweaking obvious parameters, but what are the key elements to satisfy "ghost hand"?
Its not that cool. On a Vbar it has to do with alot of parameters, including gyro deadband. When I refered to ghost hand, I wasn't refering to the system behaving like a autopilot (it doesn't) but due to the wierd feeling you get as you see wind gusts hitting the heli at 60Km/h and the only thing you see is the bird rising and falling. No lateral movement can be seen.

There are alot of subconscious correction we do while we fly, you only realise when they arn't necessary anymore. For instance, the moment you feel a wind gust in your face, you automatically lean the heli against it so it won't drift. On a vbared heli, if you do that, it will sum up the gyro correction + pilot correction and start wandering into the wind. If you don't touch the stick and just watch the heli, it will sit still even when the wind gust hits it.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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12-25-2008 02:28 AM  8 years agoPost 31
rcmike

rrVeteran

Dickson, TN

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Its not that cool. On a Vbar it has to do with alot of parameters, including gyro deadband. When I refered to ghost hand, I wasn't refering to the system behaving like a autopilot (it doesn't) but due to the wierd feeling you get as you see wind gusts hitting the heli at 60Km/h and the only thing you see is the bird rising and falling. No lateral movement can be seen.

There are alot of subconscious correction we do while we fly, you only realise when they arn't necessary anymore. For instance, the moment you feel a wind gust in your face, you automatically lean the heli against it so it won't drift. On a vbared heli, if you do that, it will sum up the gyro correction + pilot correction and start wandering into the wind. If you don't touch the stick and just watch the heli, it will sit still even when the wind gust hits it.
The SK360 will do that too. I really haven't had any problem adjusting to the way it flies. It is hard to describe, but I feel more connected with it. For example, say you are giving an elevator input like in a flip for instance and you let go of the stick. It stops exactly where you let go, no over rotation whatsoever.

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12-25-2008 03:42 AM  8 years agoPost 32
jbdww

rrElite Veteran

Round Rock, Texas

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For the longest time with a flybar heli I could never really make some nice looking aileron rolls accept in the simulator. But once I put the flybarless system in, I can now do some really nice looking rolls just like the sim. In fact my heli fly's a lot more like the sim now which has helped my learn quicker.

Skids Up
http://www.jbdww.com
http://twitter.com/jbdww/

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12-25-2008 10:58 AM  8 years agoPost 33
raptorheli2

rrElite Veteran

rip off britain and​no changing it

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tony, until someone proves otherwise showing samples of it i'll keep an open mind about it reporting back. atm i've not changed my mind but open to it being changed.

what you did describe is further proof flybarless is far from the finished article. i assume with time and tech advances we will get there.

cheers


www.waterfoothelis.com

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12-27-2008 07:10 AM  8 years agoPost 34
choppermaniac

rrNovice

Charleston,SC USA

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guess I'm the oddman out. I'm using helicommand rigid and its difantely too step a curve for a beginner to even come close to setting right. But, he cant do that till he has a perfect set up heli, and that experience sadly will take some people years to learn.
If youve been flying a little while and are pretty comfortable flying the basics, give it a try by all means. be prepared for stupid mistakes that cost you hundreds a pop while your settting it up as a newby. Once you master it though, its the most rewarding flight envelope you can get on an rc choopper , if the software is set right. never had a tail prob either. I even took a ds 760 off to use the internal HC gyro and it rocks once you click it in. It's hard to fly my other chopperrs most are collecting dust or backup.

600n flybarless 3dx head t53 8717's hc rigid 8900g
600n tt53 mp5 8v 8717 tj pro 770d 8900g

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Flybar-less Q's?
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