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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › gu365 and 4 blade head problems????
12-23-2008 06:21 AM  8 years agoPost 1
ginnz

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MB,Canada

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well ill be. i posted this at the the "other site" and get no help..... so here goes here,

i hooked mine up tonight,(gu-365) and set up as per instructions, im running it with a 4 blade head.

no matter what i do, as soon as im just starting to get lift it tips over to the right (tail in), i tried everything, i have the swash mix at 35/35/70, the gains at about 25%, and NO MATTER what, i tips over. im thinking if i try and pop er up, its a goner. heck, these new blades are almost done already......the tail seems to be ok, but the rest.... bah....and when i made changes, i "redid the setup" like rebinding. im at a loss......

i could get it into a hover better without it. whats wrong? anyone?

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12-23-2008 12:41 PM  8 years agoPost 2
v22chap

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Granger, Indiana

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Do you have the phasing set right ??? as you have to set it manually on the gu 365 as it don't have phasing capabilities in it .
Do the gyros activate the swash in the right directions when tilting it in your hand ??? They could be reversed and just be making the cyclic to the right worse .

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

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12-23-2008 01:16 PM  8 years agoPost 3
Ironhide

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dexter mi us

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Ginnz , I have not tried a 4 blade head yet but I do have a 365 on my gaui 200 and it did the same thing . Make sure that everything is balanced .If you get it off the ground the vibs won't be so bad .I have even took all the blades off and spooled it up in my hand to FEEL for any vibs ( BE VERY CAREFUL IF YOU DO THIS ).I have also went as far as a new main shaft . Remember it tells you its very sensitive to vibs and SWEARING !!!Just kidding I think mine likes it ! Hope this helps

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12-23-2008 07:32 PM  8 years agoPost 4
ginnz

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MB,Canada

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v22chap.

i think my phasing is good, or at least very close, as i was able to get it into a hover without the GU-365. and the swash movements look correct when i tilt the bird....

i have it mounted on the side of the frame right now vertical, maybe ill try an in-between the frame horizontal install. and as far as the bird being vibe free, it doesnt have any out of the normal vibes as far as i can see. ill keep playing with it. maybe its phasing..... not sure.

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12-23-2008 07:52 PM  8 years agoPost 5
v22chap

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Granger, Indiana

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The vertical mount is the problem ... the directions say it can be mounted in any position ... but that isn't stated right ... it has to be horizontal ,,,but can be any position in the horizontal ... ( upside down , wide part to front or narrow part to front ,, then you just need to flip the right dip switches to get the right gyro for the right cyclic control action then )
Hope that makes sense to ya and maybe helps .

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

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12-23-2008 08:08 PM  8 years agoPost 6
Ironhide

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dexter mi us

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You said in your other thread that your blades are almost cashed out . I put my bet on that alone .Start fresh if you can . I'm going to put some snow shoes on mine today .

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12-23-2008 09:20 PM  8 years agoPost 7
Ironhide

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dexter mi us

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Here's her snow shoes . Just in from the blizzard !!

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12-24-2008 12:49 AM  8 years agoPost 8
ginnz

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MB,Canada

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well i remounted it between the frames horizontal. ran the setup again, put the training gear back on and went on the road. tried to pop it up.

as soon as it just starts to lift off, it wants to pitch up and flip over backwards now.

at least its not trying to roll over to the right anymore. i dunno. im not so sure setting this up for a scale bird is really gonna work anymore. i mean even if i do get it to work. will it "keep" working, or will it suddenly decide to flip over in mid flight. i guess im starting to wonder if this is the way to go. like i stated earlier, i had a better hover without it......

------------------------------------------------------------------------

just to recap, i remounted, and set the dip for "horizontal", i redid the setup, following the directions, the light was green, i flipped dip 3, it blinked red, i did the elevator control up and it took,then set3 to on,and the led went to green. i set the gains on the ail/elev to about 25-30%, and the tail is about 65% or so...... then i tried to fly the thing. it popped up, the tail dropped and it appeared to want to roll over. i landed it before it flipped.

the blades are new. it doesnt appear to have too much wobble, just the normal amount a cheap 4 blade head would have. its never been crashed yet.

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12-24-2008 01:33 AM  8 years agoPost 9
v22chap

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Granger, Indiana

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it still sounds like the gyro is working backwards of what it needs to do to correct .... it has just changed now because of the horizontal mounting . make sure that you followed the last sentence of step 7 in the manual ,, it is important and easy to miss.

if you tilt the nose down ,the swash should move down in the back ,,, not down in the front ,,, if it does you need to reverse the # 6 dip switche to correct the wrong correction of the gyro for elevator ( per the chart below the dip switch settings in step 7 )

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

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12-24-2008 02:57 AM  8 years agoPost 10
ginnz

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MB,Canada

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you know what... that sounds about right, ill go through the motions again, maybe it is tilting the wrong way..... ill get back to ya.

btw- i wonder how this thing likes the cold, or is affected by it, as its -21 here now.....

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12-24-2008 03:23 AM  8 years agoPost 11
v22chap

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Granger, Indiana

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BRRRRRRRR ,, I thought it was cold here and it is up from 1 degree last night to 28 tonight .
Hope you find that it is backwards ,,,as the unit worked good on my two bladed head ... just needed more of a unit to get the phasing ...

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

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12-24-2008 01:25 PM  8 years agoPost 12
Hoverup

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Golden Gulf Coast -​USA

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Larry - Mechanical phasing on a two blade head is drop dead easy. Why would you need electronic phasing? Only curious, not sharp shooting here.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
LSF 853
Major USAF
Retired

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12-24-2008 03:02 PM  8 years agoPost 13
v22chap

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Granger, Indiana

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Boyd,,I am running a 3 bladed head setup on my Gaui 200 and it requires a little tweaking on the phasing .
And also ,,the SK 360 is smaller and lighter than the gu 365 ,,which is really needed on the 200 with a scale fuse .

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

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12-31-2008 07:14 AM  8 years agoPost 14
ginnz

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MB,Canada

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well guys..... i still cant say i have this thing beat yet. i mean, its been, between -20 and -32 here the whole time, so i havnt really been able to set this thing up properly yet. but today i gave it a couple trys again.

i had it in a decent hover twice. then it started acting stupid again..... then i notoced later that the swash lock may have let go a bit.... so i dunno, ill look into it tomorrow again. i didnt like the play it had on the lightning heli head, so i turned it around and it seemed to hold tighter.... ill re-set it up next go. and im sure the tail needs to spin faster, as it seems there is just barely enough to hold the tail, and im playing constantly with throttle/pitch curves....

at one point i noticed today the motor was starting to bog, and i dont blame it, the way i had it set up to lower the headspeed, along with the pitch... so i changed out the pinion to an 11 tooth i had laying around.

as far as the tail goes, im awaiting a different gear that a fellow member sent to me, that shoulf bring the tail speed up.

at times im almost ready to chuck the four blade head and just go with the 2 blade fly-barred head again, as im ready to put this build behind me already..... ive had the body with the lights in it here for months, if it wasnt for the 4 blade head, it wouldhave been done a long time ago. at first i was waiting for a GU365, then i found one, now its blades, and tail gear...

i found a seller on flea-bay that had 5 sets of 325mm FG blades for 30.00 shipped, so i ordered them, they'll be heavier than the 335 woodies i have on now, and should help..... we'll see.

if i ditch the head and go back to 2 blade, ill find a good flybarless 450 class head and throw the GU-365 in my HossX4E, just for the heck of it.

oh well, just thought id update my build here, and maybe ill be able to post some finished pics within the next month, and hopefully succeed in actually getting the head set up and flyable. maybe ill disconect the tail gyro aspect of it and go with my spare GY401/s9650, and just concentrate on getting the 2 axises working 100%, then re-hook up the tail gyro part.

off to bed. ttyl.

ginnz.

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12-31-2008 03:02 PM  8 years agoPost 15
v22chap

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Granger, Indiana

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Sorry you are having troubles ...
It sounds a little like you may still have throttle / pitch curve problems ..
#1 you don't want a lower head speed ... these small multi heads like the headspeed ,,,and like it on the govenor so the phasing stays consistant.

#2 you need to keep the -+ collective pitch down and especially the more blades you have as you have more of the same size blades lifting ... it only takes about 1/2 of the pitch range to fly these ... and especially not much on the bottom.
This is probably why your motor is bogging and the tail rotor is not responsive .
#3 you also need very little cyclic pitch change ( when you move the swash plate to control roll and pitch axis ) It will take a good amount of expo in the TX also ( around 20 to 28% )

I am flying my mini T with the 4 bladed head , with stock 325 carbon Align blads and only a two blade tail and once it gets up to speed the tail control is fine ,,, it lacks a little until it gets up to speed . I am also using the Skookum 360 gyro unit .The GU 365 is on another bird and true I don't like its control as good as the SK , but it still flies .. just not as smooth and locked in feeling .

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

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01-01-2009 05:06 AM  8 years agoPost 16
ginnz

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MB,Canada

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well, all i can say is thanks for keeping me in the game..... i headed out for another round or two today, and despite it being -22 and colder all freaken day, i made some headroom. at first i made sure the head was all tigntened up, then i raised my throttle curve a bit more, and smoothed out and lowered the pitch curve.... i also dropped 5% from the swash mix on elev/ail ,(im at 35/35/70) now.....

i took it out on the driveway and had it in a bunch of good hovers this afternoon. it was pretty brezzy as well (25 kph gusts), i was having some problems with keeping it in a decent sized "box", but i can see where i need to go now. i have no expo BTW programmed yet. i also on my last try bumped the gain on the GU-365 up a wee bit on both elev/ail... ill drop it back tomorrow.

with a bit more work on the head, itll get better. and to help my cause i ordered a new maingear with hub (mines kinda homebrewed :-)), some new bearings, and a 2221-10 motor and 40A Turnigy Plush ESC. ill prolly go 4S on this thing yet.

and get this, so far the best luck with blades have been the generic 325 woodies from HK that i added weight to the tips, and then re-balanced. they're ugly but so far work the best. in a week or so ill have the new gear/bearings/motor/esc in it, and it will be close to a done build....and,

i have my next one on my mind. i have a blackhawk 500se pro here that im thinking of stuffing in a scale body (my son calls 'em "Full Face" ;-)

ill prolly find a jet ranger fuse, and shorten the 500's boom to regular 450 length, and jam that in a JetRanger... with the regular 2 bladed head, (although maybe flybarless.....OH NO, here we go again....)

thanks for keeping me on the right path guys, and its getting better, but im not out of the water yet :-)

have a happy new year,

GiNNz!

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