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HelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 50 › Kasama head with stock blade grips - flybar​control arms
12-23-2008 01:54 AM  8 years agoPost 1
meowsqueak

rrApprentice

New Zealand

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I've decided to fork my conversation about possible metal head upgrades into this new thread, to specifically discuss one aspect.

I'm contemplating a Kasama head block and mixing arms, but using the stock blade grips and flybar control arms.

I understand that the Kasama flybar control arms have a 3 degree offset, designed to match the aluminium blade grips. My question is really this - if I forgo the Al blade grips and use the stock plastic ones then do I really need the aluminium flybar control arms at all, or will the stock plastic arms work effectively?

And consequently, are there any advantages to using the Kasama flybar control arms if I'm not using the Kasama blade grips?

Auxiliary question: do the Kasama flybar control arms come in two pieces? According to the grandrc.com website, it looks like there are some "flybar control posts" available, but I don't understand how they attach unless the default arms can be taken apart?

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12-23-2008 03:01 AM  8 years agoPost 2
bobbyra

rrApprentice

Fort Myers Fl

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ALL YOU NEED IS MAIN ROTOR HUB AND UPPER MIXING LEVER'S.THE LEVERS GIVE YOU A LOT MORE PITCH

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12-23-2008 03:11 AM  8 years agoPost 3
Heli 770

rrProfessor

USA.

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The flybar arms are in two pieces.

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12-23-2008 03:18 AM  8 years agoPost 4
meowsqueak

rrApprentice

New Zealand

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Heli 770 - thanks. I take it then that there's a potential modification that can be made - perhaps a longer or shorter arm? Or do you think it is in two pieces just for ease of fabrication?

bobbyra - thanks for responding - I understand it works well for you and that's good info to know.

You've already posted a very similar response in another thread. It's fair to say I'm not the sort of person who responds well to answers like: "just be done with it and ..." or "stop worrying and just get the ..." or "all you need is..."

What I'd like to know is the basis behind these things. For example, have you considered the 3 degree offset when you chose to use the stock flybar control arms? If so, what did you do to compensate?

I'm not going to spend this much money on something I can't actually physically see before I buy it. Remember, I live in NZ - not only are products hard to come by, so is good advice. It's not as simple as it may be for folks in the USA who can just visit a store and talk to someone who knows, or ask someone at the field.

So I ask these detailed questions because I actually want to know the answers! I'm not looking for reassurance or even being wishy-washy - I want to make an informed decision and I want to get it right the FIRST TIME.

So if you could kindly tell me what extra considerations, if any, need to be considered if I use the stock flybar control arms with the Kasama hub, I'd really appreciate it

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12-23-2008 03:23 AM  8 years agoPost 5
David Blain

rrKey Veteran

Mt. Dora, Florida​(USA)

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meowsquek-
Let's break it down;
-Do you NEED the grips, No but what they do provide is more stability in the bearing seats. Also they work with the geometry of the overall head set up.
-The flybar control arms do have the offset to work with the grips so if you don't use the grips you will not achieve all the Kasama head has to offer!

Now if your not using the Kasama control arms or the Kasama grips then all you achieved is "half" of a Kasama set up!
Sorry to say but to get all that is offered out of the Kasama head you should use the full set up. Sure you can add the upgraded parts as you go but it would require several several steps.
If money is a issue I would hold off and purchase the entire set up as one piece, bolt it on, set it up and let it rip.....
Other than that I would consider a less costly head to fill the void till money for the Kasama becomes available...
Just looking to keep you moving in the right direction on giant leap at a time.

My opinion only on doing it once, doing it right......

Pull-n-Pitch

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12-23-2008 03:40 AM  8 years agoPost 6
Heli 770

rrProfessor

USA.

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meowsqueak
I would say it's ease of fabrication. The flybar control post comes in one size only, It's made so the ball is centered on the main shaft.

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12-23-2008 04:07 AM  8 years agoPost 7
meowsqueak

rrApprentice

New Zealand

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Pull-n-Pitch - in general, the people I fly with believe that metal blade grips can result in more energy being transferred to the engine in a crash, due to their lack of 'flex'. I can imagine this being the case, since it would be all-metal right though to the main shaft. Have you seen any evidence of this? Is this common thought on RR or just something that the people in my group have tended towards?

That said, it is cheaper to buy the blade grips as part of the 'set', I could always leave them off for a while until I get better at avoiding the ground and can make more use of the "full" setup.

Heli 770 - thanks, that's the info I was looking for

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12-23-2008 04:35 AM  8 years agoPost 8
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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If your are looking to give your raptor more cyclic and collective responce you should look at this thread:

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t413916p2/

The mod gives new life to the aging R50. If you go with the 30degree arms, make sure to dial down your throws in cyclic and collective to manageable numbers.

Otherwise, if you just want the bling go Kasama, it sure is perrrty. get the mixers too.

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12-23-2008 06:13 AM  8 years agoPost 9
David Blain

rrKey Veteran

Mt. Dora, Florida​(USA)

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meowsqueak-
The belief of "Additional" transfer is an old wives tale of helo guys.
If you have plastic grips OR metal grips they both attach to a feathering shaft that is floating in rubber dampeners......
Now if the head is attached to a main shaft, mainshaft is driven by a Plastic gear to a clutch, wouldn't these weaker points absorb more energy (meaning break) BEFORE it gets all the back into the engine??????
Maybe I'm confused.. sure plastic grips will break off easier in a violent crash!
Now you would have to crash extremely violent! I have crashed in every possible angle of the learning curve (take any point on 360 degrees..) I have shredded blades, bent Mainshafts, buried head buttons, torn mufflers off also..It can happen
(I'm sure someone here on RR has a photo of a mangled metal head) But come on, this is sick crash that is few and far apart.
-Now the point is, Plastic grips will ALL develop slop in the seats/slots that hold the bearings, this can't be prevented unless your flying your helicopter in "Tinkerbell Mode"
you can check this by gripping the head in one hand and holding the grip in the other and see if you have any movement of any degree.

Just trying to help clarify and put an end to another "Myth"...
Hope the information above helps. Get the metal grips and arms...

Pull-n-Pitch

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12-23-2008 10:05 AM  8 years agoPost 10
meowsqueak

rrApprentice

New Zealand

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MoneyPitVictim - thanks for the link.

Pull-n-Pitch - you make some good points. Thank you.

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12-23-2008 12:41 PM  8 years agoPost 11
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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The Kasama head is a geourgous piece of machine work and will really bring a Raptor to life. But.....unless you're flying hard 3D its not likely you will gain much from it. If you stick the harder dampeners in it you have to run a higher head speed and the blades fairly loose in the grips or it will wobble.

If your stated aim to to improve longevity then get the Quick UK (or TT or mavrikk if you can find them there, they are all comparable) and be done with it

I say that because you seem to be worried about a lot of details that are well beyond your stated flying style/objectives/ability.

Metal grips are great, if you treat them well, and locktite the radial bearings in, they will last forever. Plastic grips will wear out and develop woof at some point, but they are cheap. As for transfering damage to the engine, personally I think thats a bunch-o-crap.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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12-23-2008 08:53 PM  8 years agoPost 12
meowsqueak

rrApprentice

New Zealand

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Hi BarracudaHockey,

It is my intention to eventually fly "hard 3D" but I'm a little way off for now. I will get there though. It will just take time.

Let us assume for now that "money is no object" (sigh, wish it were the case) and that I bought the full Kasama head. As you say, with harder dampeners a higher head speed is required. What I'd like to know is whether it will still perform at least as well as the stock head at lower speeds (1800rpm, or even up to 2000) with the stock blue dampeners.

If that's the case, and assuming it lasts a long time, then I'd be happy to spend the extra now to avoid buying another head in the future.

It turns out that the Quick UK (with comparable bits, like washout and button, etc, but also flybar cage which the K doesn't have) works out to be about the same price, just slightly cheaper.

Haven't been able to find a suitable TT or Mavrikk supplier actually.

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12-23-2008 08:57 PM  8 years agoPost 13
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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I run mine at 2000 to keep it from wobbling. I had to take the infinivation dampeners out because they were too hard and go back to using reds. I've never tried flying the Kasama with blues but I'm probably more interested in keeping the blades and boom apart at this point than you are.

If the price is anywhere close, get the Kasama that way it will be ready when you are.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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