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12-26-2008 03:45 AM  8 years agoPost 21
Joe Bennett

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29 Palms, CA

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Spoof alert........

What I remember was that RCAPA would give a full AP system of choice (either planker or heli) to each new member just to get them to sign up at their site. These were worth around $1000 each or so, and that would make it something over $1.5 million they gave out just to drive their membership up. I signed up at least 6 times myself, and still have 3 helis and 3 plankers with all the fixin's. Did you get yours too? Those RCAPA guys sure know how to spend their money just to drive up the membership numbers. Corporate jets, Hooters lunches, and junkets to Paris, man what a life they must lead. I know that they must be raking in the dough hand over fist too from all their deals and governmental contracts, so they have plenty to burn....

Joe

Joe Bennett

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12-26-2008 03:50 AM  8 years agoPost 22
BigguyOz

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Forster, New South​Wales, Australia

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Folks, can you see the danger that the conversation is tending towards looking backwards at what already exists. What is needed is looking forward, and the basic questions posed by iflybuyu77 remain...

1) should anything be done? If so what?
2) who should do it?
3) how does the person/organisation chosen in 2) get chosen?
4) who should they represent?
etc. please reread his post for more details

Tony Stott

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12-26-2008 04:59 AM  8 years agoPost 23
Joe Bennett

rrNovice

29 Palms, CA

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Folks, can you see the danger that the conversation is tending towards looking backwards at what already exists. What is needed is looking forward, and the basic questions posed by iflybuyu77 remain...

1) should anything be done? If so what?
2) who should do it?
3) how does the person/organisation chosen in 2) get chosen?
4) who should they represent?
etc. please reread his post for more details

Tony Stott
Tony,

Thanks for getting his thread back on line again. Some answers from my perspective:

1) Yes, something should be done. It is being done as we speak. It is MUCH too late for the process to begin yet again as the catch-up time would not allow for anything to be accomplished prior to the FAA releasing it's findings, rules, and regulations.

2) RCAPA is already in place. The ARC rules have already chosen the members that are tasked with providing their recommendations. NO ONE ELSE CAN OR WILL BE ADDED TO THE ARC PROCESS, NO ONE. Want to make the ARC process more visible and accountable, then CONTACT THE FAA AND REGISTER YOUR COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE SECRECY THEY HAVE DIRECTED TO BE IN PLACE COVERING THE ARC!!!!

3) No one chose anyone to be the lead organization. Due to cicumstances RCAPA ended up with that distinction. RCAPA is OWNED by Rick Connelly. He started it (along with Gene Robinson). He owns the website. He provided ALL funds needed to operate RCAPA and the website. He paid to have the RCAPA name TRADEMARKED and protected from illegal usage. RCAPA is NOT owned by the public, but has worked in the public's interest. At the original RCAPA Forums there was a tremendous amount of discussion about what should be done, and how it should be accomplished. Dozens (or more) assisted and helped mold the direction that is currently being taken. It was not only just one or two people, but again DOZENS who provided original input. Input was ALWAYS asked for and implemented as received after MUCH discussion. Rick is the owner of RCAPA, he is the boss, end of discussion on that subject. Wanna be the boss? Reimburse Rick, ask nicely if he will turn it all over to you, and you can be the boss too.

4) Rick and Gene originally chose to represent themselves. They were kind enough to invite others of a like interest to join in on all the fun. Those that did join, at least some anyway, did participate in the original process. Much was accomplished while waiting for the shoe to drop from the FAA. When it DID drop, they reacted and asked for exemption after exemption, and made a royal pain of themselves to the FAA. They used the member input to craft the RCAPA Guidelines, and other documents that they provided to not only the FAA, but the world as well. The time always comes when input needs to be changed to output. Once the documents were at a "Post Draft" stage, that was when they were sent off to the FAA and others. Even then though, RCAPA has always kept an open mind, and door for new input.

Many things have been done by RCAPA to try to keep the FAA off the APers tails. Examination and self-certification program, which lead to the first easily obtainable liability insurance for APers. A newsletter, which actively solicited and printed articles of interest from the general public as well as exclusive stories about people and places associated with the AP world, and MUCH more. What has RCAPA received in return for their efforts? A spot on the current ARC, invitations to speak at world meetings and seminars, as well as at some stateside ones too. Recognition from the FAA and other governmental entities that RCAPA is SERIOUS about its position and stance towards anything that might affect the AP community. Also, the ire and anger of a very few select opponents too. For what reasons, well I cannot seem to see any real justification for the many false claims, outright lies, concerns about some mysterious ulterior motives, and pure unadulterated hatred directed towards these few unselfish souls who have devoted a large part of their lives and fortunes over the last 4 plus years to help the many out there who HAVE indicated that they are onboard with the effort....

Joe

Joe Bennett

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12-26-2008 05:02 AM  8 years agoPost 24
xfc3dcd

rrApprentice

West Carrollton,​Ohio usa

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Joe

Do you have any other thoughts or suggestions of a constructive nature?

Wendell

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12-26-2008 05:17 AM  8 years agoPost 25
Joe Bennett

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29 Palms, CA

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Sure do Wendell, but as I too have been painted with the same brush as other RCAPA members anything I say or suggest is suspect as well. If there is truly a serious request for my thoughts and input I will be very happy to put that forth here. If there is not, then I will not make the effort. I only wish that some of those who choose to send messages of support via email would make the effort to post in places like this as well. But, I do understand that the silent majority is often fearful of having those who do not agree with them end up attacking them as well....

Joe

Joe Bennett

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12-26-2008 05:59 AM  8 years agoPost 26
xfc3dcd

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West Carrollton,​Ohio usa

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Joe,

Thanks for the previous post. It cleared up many things for me. I think many people think that RCAPA should be set up like the AMA or AOPA where the membership has voting rights. You have made it clear that this in not the plan for RCAPA.

Regarding the ARC, I understand that no other members may be added to the ARC. I would however be interested in attending the meetings. Do you happen to know who the committee chair is?

Thanks,

Wendell

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12-26-2008 07:13 AM  8 years agoPost 27
patrickegan

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Sacramento, CA

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Wendell,
You (or anyone else) can’t be added, with exception of SME’s (Subject Matter Experts). They do not get to vote, but elucidate on their field of expertise.

The AOPA and AMA membership will not get to vote on what comes of the ARC until the NPRM process.

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12-26-2008 12:37 PM  8 years agoPost 28
Rappy 60

rrVeteran

Paris, France

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RCAPA is OWNED by Rick Connelly. He started it (along with Gene Robinson). He owns the website. He provided ALL funds needed to operate RCAPA and the website. He paid to have the RCAPA name TRADEMARKED and protected from illegal usage. RCAPA is NOT owned by the public, but has worked in the public's interest.
Why would you set up an origination like that in the public interest if its a private company, that is just silly.

Guess that rules out the origination route then.

I really do wish RCAPA the very best. For me, I don't think I just let these RCAPA forums die. Good night.

Dale

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12-26-2008 12:46 PM  8 years agoPost 29
BigguyOz

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Forster, New South​Wales, Australia

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But how can just walking away achieve any good results? I don't think the ownership of RCAPA bears any relevance at all, provided its actions are in the interests of the commercial RC AP community. Being privately owned is not an automatic negative. You only need to look at the news headlines to see how public corporation ownership offers no comfort at all....

But it all comes down to this.. if you consider whatever is currently in place is not appropriate, please offer a suggestion as to what needss to be brought in as a replacement.

Tony Stott

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12-26-2008 12:50 PM  8 years agoPost 30
Rappy 60

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Paris, France

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I don't think the ownership of RCAPA bears any relevance at all
Well apparently that is not the case, please re-read the entire post. Its rather quite clear what membership want. There is no hidden agenda, its all there in black and white.
please offer a suggestion as to what needss to be brought in as a replacement.
We have, again please re-read this thread. It quite plainly states what should happen with RCAPA. However, since its privately owned and not much chance of the owner opening up to the public (which by the way is what this organization is supposedly for, the public) and allowing their vote/voice to be heard then I see the pursuit as being pointless in regards to RCAPA. Unsubscribed.....

Dale

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12-26-2008 02:18 PM  8 years agoPost 31
xfc3dcd

rrApprentice

West Carrollton,​Ohio usa

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Patrick,

I did not say I wanted to be seated on the committee - I said I wanted to attend the meetings to listen.

I draw your attention to the FAA's own information which states:

"Public or persons outside of this committee who want to attend a meeting must get approval in advance of the meeting from the committee chair or a designated federal representative."

My thought was this might thwart the FAA's intentions of keeping the discussions so esoteric.

Once again - who is the ARC committee chair?

Wendell

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12-26-2008 03:14 PM  8 years agoPost 32
Joe Bennett

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29 Palms, CA

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Wendell,

Visit the FAA website ARC area located at http://www.faa.gov/about/committees/rulemaking/ and scroll down to the sUAS ARC info near the end. There you will find the FAA officials that it would be helpful to contact. Also, if not already done, be sure to read the ARC formation order 1110.150 (specifically section #7) regarding who and how to attend any meetings. Contact those officials, and be sure to let us know how the FAA responds too. Good luck....

Joe

Joe Bennett

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12-26-2008 03:33 PM  8 years agoPost 33
Joe Bennett

rrNovice

29 Palms, CA

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Dale,

If you will again read my response to Wendell you will see that RCAPA (from my perspective as a former board member and current RCAPA member) has been very responsive to feedback from its members and from the general public as well. Just because it was formed by two individuals and funded by them pretty much without outside financial assistance should not exclude it from being allowed to pursue its intended purpose. It has continued to be open to members, and has actively solicited and acted upon ideas and suggestions from them and the community at large. You want to make it better, then put forth positive ideas and suggestions that could be incorporated into RCAPA rather than trying to destroy what has been a work of years for many. RCAPA is not the enemy of the AP community, but only a voice (of reason I would hope) trying to bring solutions to those who have the power to change forever the what and how of sUAS operation in the USA. Why not help the cause we all strive for rather than hinder it. By the way, you do NOT need to be a member of RCAPA to be a member of the RCAPA Forums. ANYONE can join the Forums there and have their voice and ideas heard. Give it a try, you do not need to agree, but you do need to be respectful and provide positive solutions to the things you do not agree with. Thanks Dale....

Joe

Joe Bennett

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12-26-2008 03:40 PM  8 years agoPost 34
HawkEyeMedia

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Fort Worth, Texas

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Once again, RCAPA is showing us they will not change. I felt that this thread was going in a positive direction until Joe Bennett began posting with the usual RCAPA attitude.

It's clear to me that it's either RCAPA's way or no way.

Best of luck with that.

Mark LaBoyteaux
HawkEyeMedia.com

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12-26-2008 03:45 PM  8 years agoPost 35
TCGliderguy

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Albuquerque, New​Mexico

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Thank you Joe, for outlining the status of RCAPA much better than I could hope to do.... just as Rick, Gene, Patrick, etc. can represent my interests to the government much better than I can do. This is not because I couldn't learn all about this stuff, but because these guys have already made that investment in time, effort, money, etc. They made the effort, so that I don't have to. Any attempts to "democratize" the process at this point would lead to uninformed chaos.
(One definition of a "democracy" is mob rule...). When we have these bureaucracy issues resolved, RCAPA can become a trade organization, with elected representatives, officers, etc.

So I am making an investment I CAN do.... I just went to http://www.rcapa.net, and found the "Donate" button, near the bottom left of the page... and donated $100 through my PalPal account.

I would encourage the adults reading this to do the same.....

-Taylor

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12-26-2008 03:55 PM  8 years agoPost 36
HawkEyeMedia

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Fort Worth, Texas

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I've looked all over the RCAPA website and nowhere does it list the current board members.

Taylor, that's fine that you want to donate your money to a club with no accountability, but as a business owner, I won't.

RCAPA as it stands does not represent my best interests. It's clear to me that they're not willing to change. If they were a transparent organization like AOPA, EAA, AMA, etc, I would feel different.

If my opinion of RCAPA is different from yours, does that make me a child and not an adult?

Mark LaBoyteaux
HawkEyeMedia.com

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12-26-2008 04:37 PM  8 years agoPost 37
patrickegan

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Sacramento, CA

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I haven’t posted in this thread because I was concerned about it turning into something less than productive.

Some of the plan sounds great and I'm sure everyone would be open to talking about it, but I have to ask the following… (disclaimer)The following is not meant to be snarky, but more of a frank look of what is required.

1. Who do we propose is going to do all of the work?

2. Who do we propose will pay for attorneys and filings for the non-profit or manage the project? We looked into, I did the paper work on another 501 (c ) (3)and it wasn’t fun, nor is the reoccurring paperwork, fillings etc.

3. Do we put all efforts on hold until the bones of the association are sorted out?

4. While all of this is going on do we stop fundraising?

5. Do we spend all of this capitol on the association or integration?
(Unfunded ARC meeting end of January)

5. Is it a good time to change horses with the ARC being close to completion?

6. Who is, or will be qualified to make those decisions?

8. Knowing up front that a higher level of participation does not translate into immediate full participation, are you still willing to jump in

9. Are people willing to really commit for 6 to 18 months of participation
10. Any good estimates for the time it would take to complete the transformation?
11. Proposed budget and income stream to complete the aforementioned?

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12-26-2008 04:59 PM  8 years agoPost 38
Joe Bennett

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29 Palms, CA

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I've looked all over the RCAPA website and nowhere does it list the current board members.

Taylor, that's fine that you want to donate your money to a club with no accountability, but as a business owner, I won't.

RCAPA as it stands does not represent my best interests. It's clear to me that they're not willing to change. If they were a transparent organization like AOPA, EAA, AMA, etc, I would feel different.

If my opinion of RCAPA is different from yours, does that make me a child and not an adult?

Mark LaBoyteaux
Mark,

The Board members are not some deep and dark secret. They have been listed in a number of threads on various forums, and that list has always been available at the RCAPA Reporter for several years now.

RCAPA does not represent the "best" interest of everyone, but a large number of people have indicated that they do approve of what RCAPA is trying to accomplish. Those groups you mentioned do differ from RCAPA in one important way, they all charge dues to be a member, each and every one of them. Each is also accountable in one way or another to their dues paying membership too. The AMA has been taken to task for the huge amounts of money spent on their Ohio flying site and museum. That is par for the course though as you can NEVER please everyone all the time.

Mark, you have had differences with Rick and others on the board for various reasons, so your motives might be suspect here, but you do have every right to express what you feel. We all have to decide on which side to be on, which is sad and strange because ultimately we are all truly on the same side in the end. If you and some of the others would put even a tenth of the effort into complaining to the FAA about what is going on, then I think that they might begin to fear the backlash of their actions. Their secrecy and ignorance of our plight should be brought to their attention often, and in as strong a fashion as the continuing attacks against RCAPA.

Again, and for the record, let me state that I am NOT an RCAPA Board member, but only a concerned RCAPA member. Attacking me will serve no other purpose than to show the level of unbridled hatred that some who feel they have been slighted by RCAPA for some reason will stoop to. Thanks Mark....

Joe

For your benefit Mark, posted list again:
RCAPA Board of Directors
  • Rick Connolly - Co-founder/President
  • Gene Robinson - Co-founder/SAR
  • Patrick Egan - Director of Special Promotions
  • Ira Buckley - Director of Public Relations
  • Mel Duval - Special consultant to Board of Directors

Joe Bennett

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12-26-2008 04:59 PM  8 years agoPost 39
TCGliderguy

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Albuquerque, New​Mexico

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Mark,

No.... my comment about adults was not directed to you. Your message wasn't posted when I was writing my reply....

I just seriously believe that since RCAPA has been recognized by the FAA, that we need to be supportive. RCAPA isn't perfect, but I don't see any other option at this point. It is certainly too late to start another organization, and try to get government recognition.

And even if RCAPA was completely controlled by voting members, there is still not guarantee that the organization would please everyone.

I just see a lot more positives than negatives for RCAPA at this point.
And the government may slam the door on our heads no matter what happens...... I think this is a time for unity, even if it is disgruntled unity.

Happy Holidays!

-Taylor

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12-26-2008 05:19 PM  8 years agoPost 40
HawkEyeMedia

rrApprentice

Fort Worth, Texas

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Again, and for the record, let me state that I am NOT an RCAPA Board member, but only a concerned RCAPA member. Attacking me will serve no other purpose than to show the level of unbridled hatred that some who feel they have been slighted by RCAPA for some reason will stoop to. Thanks Mark....
Joe, sorry if you feel attacked......just expressing my opinion.

And being accused by Patrick Eagan on a public forum of making the RCAP community look like idiots because I TRIED to help RCAPA
(reference this post by Patrick http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...&postcount=1765
makes my motives suspect? I've been bent over and screwed by RCAPA in the past. You're going to have to do a lot better than that to mend this fence.

So why aren't the board members listed on the website?
At one time, wasn't Gary Travis on the board? Why isn't he on there now?

Mark LaBoyteaux
HawkEyeMedia.com

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