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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › OK, so you say you want to lighten up your gasser and want a bit more power too
12-15-2008 12:04 AM  8 years agoPost 1
Gearhead

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half gas/half 20/20 glow fuel, no spark plugs, no ignition,,I don't see why this wont work on your gassers heli engines,, I hope someone tries it and lets us know,,

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8009384/tm.htm

Jim
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12-15-2008 12:25 AM  8 years agoPost 2
john125812 Paul Macha

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If this work, will be superb for Z20EI !

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12-15-2008 12:40 AM  8 years agoPost 3
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well I don't see why it wouldn't, the trick would all be in the tuning,

but it does sound like a bit more oil than I hear most use ??

Jim
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12-15-2008 12:51 AM  8 years agoPost 4
bosshoss

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Interesting, wonder if it is really worth the troubled....

Wait, what am I typing.........weight loss freaks will do anything to shed mass....

Someone have a spare 231 or 260 to test? I think the ring gap requirement is the nexus..........

Why Hover a Yak, when a Heli does it better?

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12-15-2008 12:52 AM  8 years agoPost 5
john125812 Paul Macha

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well I don't see why it wouldn't, the trick would all be in the tuning,
The Z20 have smaller glow plug than Z231 and different timing.

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12-15-2008 01:47 AM  8 years agoPost 6
Fixit

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Am I missing something?

I’m lost, I bought a gasser because they run cheep fuel so why would I want to mix it with expensive nitro, if you want a lighter machine that is more 3D capable than a gasser you would normally buy a nitro setup wouldn’t you.

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12-15-2008 02:08 AM  8 years agoPost 7
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edited

you are missing something LOL

think about it,,

1) less fuel cost than nitro

2) less fuel consumption than glow

3) more power than gasoline

4) no ignition so it's lighter

5) pullstart,,, grab and go

6) easier starting

7) lower, smoother idle

8) no radio interference

it's just a different option in the world of hels..

I knew way back in the 70s you could mix the two fuels, but I didn't know it would work with a glow plug,, cool..

Jim
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12-15-2008 03:00 AM  8 years agoPost 8
bosshoss

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I gotta get a beater gasser to experiment on.

I would love to see it done, but my Spectra G is just too damn dialed and smooth for me to mess with it.

I knew it, I knew I would find another excuse to buy yet another helicopter.

Why Hover a Yak, when a Heli does it better?

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12-15-2008 03:30 AM  8 years agoPost 9
Dr. Fibinotchi

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hmm

200-300 rpm? Thats like driving down the highway at 61 instead of 60. There is nothing wrong with looking at all options though. I see a better ported motor and timed making a much harder impact in the power to weight ratio gasser world.

EI has some very nice benifits though. Lots of flywheel can be removed.

-Cody

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

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12-15-2008 11:46 AM  8 years agoPost 10
john125812 Paul Macha

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Lots of flywheel can be removed.
No, if you remove material there, the idle become unstable. Look Z20EI. Fixit is right. For me it makes sense only in case of Z20EI.
- no care about battery
- no weight of battery
- no weight of ignition

It is 300-400 grams less!!

I don't care about 300rpm..

Going to buy new Z20EI and test how it works.

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12-15-2008 12:59 PM  8 years agoPost 11
Fixit

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you are missing something LOL

think about it,,
1) less fuel cost than nitro, Gas is way cheaper

2) less fuel consumption than glow, Gas is far better

3) more power than gasoline, Probably

4) no ignition so it's lighter, EI can lower the weight dramatically if you power it from the flight pack.

5) pullstart,,, grab and go, Pullstarts work on glow also.

6) easier starting, Granted

7) lower, smoother idle, Yep that would be a bonus.

8) no radio interference, Just use 2.4.

I still think I would be adding £10 to a £6 gallon of fuel and that defeats the object of having a gasser.

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12-15-2008 02:50 PM  8 years agoPost 12
bosshoss

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Yes, it seems the only CON is the added cost of glow fuel. Oh wait, and you need a glow starter too..and extra glow plugs(of course),.....

And that negates the gasser fuel cost savings. But, the weight factor seems to be the big draw, while still having a gasser....

Or is it still a gasser after all....hmmmmm...

here we go 'round,'round,'round,....

Why Hover a Yak, when a Heli does it better?

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12-15-2008 03:56 PM  8 years agoPost 13
Dr. Fibinotchi

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ah

300-400 grams I must have read it wrong. Iddle does NOT become unstable IF you have the timming retarded as Roy did with my motor when he converted it to EI. This retarded in the timming in iddle and then advanced to normal spooling up. Transition in timming is flawless. This gains additional weight loss.

John I see your point. Let us know how you like it.

Roy Sholl
S&S machine enginering
419-452-6042

-Cody

If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

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12-15-2008 04:46 PM  8 years agoPost 14
john125812 Paul Macha

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here we go 'round,'round,'round,....
No, after all here, I see we are EXACTLY on the middle way between glow and gasser. We can call it here DIESEL Conclusion from some point of views in our hobby competition:
A)Fuel price 1. Gasser 2. Diesel 3.Glow
B)Field equipment: 1. Gasser 2-3 Diesel glow is same
C)Power: 1. Glow 2.Diesel 3. Gasser We can say 2=3 very little difference OK?
D)Cost of engine to convert it and maintenance: 1. Gasser 2.Glow 3. Diesel
IMHO, if I want more power and to carry field equipment with me, is better to go back to glow completely. I gain much more - the full power.

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12-15-2008 05:21 PM  8 years agoPost 15
smallplanes

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Has anyone made there own crank case for the Zen 26? I think you could use the zen crank and bearings and jug and make a lighter crank case about like a da 50. Leave the pull start off and crank with starter and it should come out lighter. I've thought of doing this myself.

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12-15-2008 05:39 PM  8 years agoPost 16
john125812 Paul Macha

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Go away from Z26 - is vibrator for womans
Z26 is usable only after professional tuning.

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12-15-2008 08:01 PM  8 years agoPost 17
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I think the weight savings makes this Gas/Glow a very good alterative to glow, especially for gasser planes, I'm thinking seriously about this for my larger planes,, now only if I had a gasser heli..

Jim
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12-15-2008 08:55 PM  8 years agoPost 18
bosshoss

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A hybrid motor, AKA using the Zenoah top-end and a lighter cnc case would be one way to lose weight. How much lighter mightnot bw cost effective, but to weight loss addiction afflicted flyers , any cost is reasonable.

A reed induction motor for a heli is a waste of time, space, as the low end , where reed induction makes the transition smoother, is rarely used during flight.

So a top end tuned, piston port style engine is best, all the way around.

I am on the fence for 2/3 gas glow....tell me again how it makes my life more convenient....'cus that is what makes the gasser attractive to me.

LOL, this is a good one. a great debate, so who is going to spin up thier 231 or 260 on this brew??

I can see the benefits in planks...expecially the bigger ones...although as you get bigger, the weight of the ignition is nothing relatively. good one...

Why Hover a Yak, when a Heli does it better?

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12-15-2008 10:23 PM  8 years agoPost 19
billkent

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LOL, this is a good one. a great debate, so who is going to spin up thier 231 or 260 on this brew??
Lost time nad money - only exeption is Z20EI - you can aproach there very close to glow performance for less fuell price. Nothing more.

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12-15-2008 11:13 PM  8 years agoPost 20
smallplanes

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I bought a gasser for fuel cost and a long fight time,theres no way i would mix glow. I also hate the clean up of a glow heli just to fly around a few minutes and clean 10 to 15 mins.

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