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HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Any operators interested in developing an,​Industry Code of Practice?
12-23-2008 04:52 PM  8 years agoPost 201
patrickegan

rrKey Veteran

Sacramento, CA

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Ross,
I can’t/don’t AP for several reasons
1. Currently illegal to operate commercially here in the US.
2. Very little spare time, I have meetings every 5 to 6 weeks that require a lot of prep.
3. Very little spare money to purchase equipment. Clothing, travel, phones, printing misc. overhead.

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12-23-2008 06:59 PM  8 years agoPost 202
KC

rrElite Veteran

WA

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchausen_syndrome

A typical AP sorty is under 15 minutes, 400 feet, and the machine shows up on radar the same as a seagull.

it is quiet, it is rarely seen or heard. Most of the time when it is seen, it is cool, it is interesting, and people, which law enforcement and other potential party poopers are, want to see it fly.

in helicopters alone, I have over 4000 hours. I have been asked twice to not fly and I have complied...once by a crazy lady that moved into my neighbor's house, the other time by a woman who thought the smoke was polluting the planet.

The last one called the cops, they thought she was nuts.

The DOD doesn't mind what I do, five years with them btw. TSA doesnt care, DOJ, NSA, FAA, CIA, FBI, DHS, NRO.....

You are standing on the rooftop shouting until someone comes along that agrees with your insanity and gives you a deal.

I wish RCAPA was a credible voice for our interests, but in 200 posts of just this thread, let alone all the other circumlocutions you have created across the internet, its evident you believe any attention is better than none at all. You're nuts.

I think you will be the nail in the coffin to RC AP activity unless you step aside from your suares to make RCAPA look more important and credible than it is (it could be if it was led by someone who wasn't a flake) and tell us who the 'boogeymen' are so we can have a voice of reason meet with them.

Remember I said I don't care about your feelings....emotions don't have a place in business decision making, especially when it comes down to survival. You elected to lead the charge against a potentiality that has yet to materialize. In the process you used negative emotions against anyone who tried to reason with you and opened the door for the worst by dividing more people than you could have united...the end result is the same every time you post until you demonstrate a professional capacity or remove yourself from the helm of the RCAPA.

Perhaps we can have a vote on who can lead it instead?

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12-23-2008 07:44 PM  8 years agoPost 203
macsgrafs

rrApprentice

Barnstaple, Devon,​UK

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Ross,
I can’t/don’t AP for several reasons
1. Currently illegal to operate commercially here in the US.
2. Very little spare time, I have meetings every 5 to 6 weeks that require a lot of prep.
3. Very little spare money to purchase equipment. Clothing, travel, phones, printing misc. overhead.
1.Only illegal if you charge/make money from it..its nof for pleasure.

2.If you want to represent me, you will need to be an A/P flier

3.Sell the phones, get your own printer & stop travelling

I do understand the position modern life puts us ALL in with regards to costs & time, but to be honest Patrick the guys/girls would hold you in higher respect if you were an A/P flier. I see a lot of hostility from people here against you & I'm very sure that would go if you were indeed an A/P flier, at least they would know you are trying to save YOUR hobby as well.
It's like having a president who is not a politician, my advice is go ahead & approach the FAA with your guidlines, if the guys/girls on here dont agree...they had there chance & sat back, doing NOTHING..but please, please, please take up A/P..you will be far more credible.

Respectfully
Ross McKinnon

Seems to me that ALL heli's beat the air into submission

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12-23-2008 08:12 PM  8 years agoPost 204
totu

rrApprentice

Colorado

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Patrick has been around a long time and is well known. And for those who've been around a few years you know he has rarely posted anything other than RCAPA, its promotion and cynical persecution of dissenters. Over these years in all these forums he's originated very very very very very ...etc... few posts or threads regarding AP, platforms, or cameras. Once in a great while he drops a comment on something other than rcapa.

If you go way back to early history you can see his war waged against RAPA? and MACO? You can also see that those guys weren't so wrong at all.

Essentially Patrick IS RCAPA. Not sure but I suspect the letters of incorporation may even indicate this. You can't pry the two apart. Another public spokesman face can be installed but Patrick will always be the core, the eternal director, the effective owner. All other board members are attachments.

To me, all this effort is about promoting the RCAPA organization and promoting Patrick. All else (the FAA is coming) are largely the motivators for trying to grow, shape and move a herd.

Here kitty kitty

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12-23-2008 08:43 PM  8 years agoPost 205
lowandslow

rrKey Veteran

Spring Hill, TN

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In their own forums under this topic there are only 5 posts and no responses in answer to the original question. I think RCAPA is an association of about five or six real people total.

Truth be known I'll bet there's not more than 5 - 10 companies if that doing R/C AP full time in the USA and making a real living at it. Even the part time professional community is relatively small and to take it one step further the just for fun AP crowd is a tiny spec in the over all R/C aviation community.

The professional R/C AP community is so tiny it will be nearly be impossible to rally any meaningful support or funding and the FAA knows it.

When trying to sway things to your advantage, the government only speaks four languages. Campaign contributions, lobbyists with teeth, votes and lawsuits. If you don't have any of those you don't have squat.

If you have fifty or sixty thousand members, a fat bank account and a staff lawyer working full time on the issue you might get to second base.

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12-23-2008 09:04 PM  8 years agoPost 206
iflybyu77

rrKey Veteran

Fort Wayne, IN

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Gentlemen, may I be so bold as to propose that this argument should STOP being about Patrick. It's about us. Stop picking him apart because it serves no purpose. As for whether RCAPA is just Patrick? I disagree. He did not found it.

As for this "potentiality" that KC spoke of.. If the guys who have already been directly affected, fined, shut down would speak, you'd know that it's not "potential" anymore. It's real. Now, if you were the one to be directly affected already, wouldn't you be pleased to hear that the greater community decided to stand up and work for resolution? Or do you think fighting it alone is a better choice? Sure, the situation, letters and rulings seem somewhat vague, but you had better believe that the government/FAA will cling to these little tidbits and then YOU will be feeling the pain. It's not if, it's when. And furthermore, if someone has an accident/incident, don't you realize that the court of public opinion is going to "rule" SWIFTLY and the microscope, will be on EVERYONE. Now, wouldn't you rather be represented? Wouldn't you rather know what may come? Wouldn't it be better if policy was in place that the FAA/public knew that that particular incident was NOT the norm, and that we have standards and aren't a bunch of ragtag idiots with what the public already thinks are "toy helicopters"?

We need to shift focus here. Let's start constructively debating how we can organize, and under what banner we will do so. Regardless of how much, how little you want to be regulated, the discussion still needs to occur. Too much is riding on this to be distracted by personal disdain for one another.

David

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12-23-2008 09:07 PM  8 years agoPost 207
iflybyu77

rrKey Veteran

Fort Wayne, IN

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If you have fifty or sixty thousand members, a fat bank account and a staff lawyer working full time on the issue you might get to second base.
Think big. Think how can we partner with other associations. How could we be affiliated with someone who WOULD defend us. Why not the AOPA? Heck, a good number of us are ALREADY full scale pilots. Find new avenues to seek that revenue stream, and memberships that cross over into other areas. How about partnering with a photography association? Again, these are things that need to be discussed. And the discussion can solve these problems.

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12-23-2008 09:25 PM  8 years agoPost 208
totu

rrApprentice

Colorado

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Arguments? You mean 'potentially not supportive' posts. Did not your previous post ask a few questions regarding Patrick, his perceived suitability and potential of self-inflicted damage?

I think you would like to limit responses to: "Yes, I'm aboard, what can I do?"

It seems so many would like to say other related things. Perhaps we should have another thread for that titled: "Who declines RCAPA? (and would otherwise like to be involved with like-minded others)". It might be a good way to seperate and organization the discussions.

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12-23-2008 09:34 PM  8 years agoPost 209
iflybyu77

rrKey Veteran

Fort Wayne, IN

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Arguments? You mean 'potentially not supportive' posts. Did not your previous post ask a few questions regarding Patrick, his perceived suitability and potential of self-inflicted damage?

I think you would like to limit responses to: "Yes, I'm aboard, what can I do?"

It seems so many would like to say other related things. Perhaps we should have another thread for that titled: "Who declines RCAPA? (and would otherwise like to be involved with like-minded others)". It might be a good way to seperate and organization the discussions.
Absolutely. Perhaps that came across too strongly. I speak with no authority anyways.

Me, I'm aboard, and I'm hoping you too will do just as you suggested and form constructive thoughts. No one is going to force any of us to do so, but I hope everyone figures it out that we should.

I'm interested to hear how you can separate the organization from the discussion? In the other thread (probably where this discussion should continue) it was asked whether RCAPA is viable still. Discuss it. Would you suggest a new organization or none at all? It's all worth discussing. I have my own opinions of course, and I'm not afraid to share them. Don't be afraid to share yours.

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12-23-2008 09:42 PM  8 years agoPost 210
totu

rrApprentice

Colorado

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Re 'seperate and organization the discussions' was a typo. It should read 'seperate and organize these discussions'.

I think others would like to join in 'Who declines RCAPA' as a place to discuss things free of all the constant RCAPA promotion and nagging. Or heck, even unpromote RCAPA. In each thread, like-minds could preceed on their favored path without all the potential conflict.

With chuckles, high-fives and smiles on RCAPA-guys part, it's not enough to avoid RCAPA by simply not visiting their website and forum. These other guys almost need a forum which stricly forbids (with enforcement) RCAPA and it's rallying efforts. (better get a big server)

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12-23-2008 09:49 PM  8 years agoPost 211
iflybyu77

rrKey Veteran

Fort Wayne, IN

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Let's say for the sake of discussion Patrick was no longer in the picture. What now is the reason why RCAPA is not a worthy organization to work with to (presumably) change in a way that we can all agree to?

My reason for saying this is in my own opinion it seems like destruction or the take-down of the organization is the goal, not the building up of a new one? It would seem it would be better to direct the efforts to tear down a organization towards fixing what you have, or building a new one. I don't think there are chuckles and high-fives with the RCAPA guys either. Sounds like they are all frustrated too. That's why I think publicly saying they need to reorganize seems like a better option.

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12-23-2008 10:07 PM  8 years agoPost 212
totu

rrApprentice

Colorado

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You can't hide Patrick. We know he's still in there.

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12-23-2008 10:44 PM  8 years agoPost 213
iflybyu77

rrKey Veteran

Fort Wayne, IN

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Totu, you need to move past Patrick. It serves no purpose to cling to his name.

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12-23-2008 11:32 PM  8 years agoPost 214
totu

rrApprentice

Colorado

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No prob. RCAPA has a multi-faceted set of issues. He's just one.

And you guys are (intentionally or not) mis-characterizing the unfavorable responses. You call it attack, hate, negative, tearing down, (and all the stuff Oz admonishes with), etc. That fact of the matter is, guys are simply saying "No I don't want any, get that thing out of my face".

Guys who want it are already over in the RCAPA forum.

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12-23-2008 11:34 PM  8 years agoPost 215
iflybyu77

rrKey Veteran

Fort Wayne, IN

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Totu, call me dumb, but what other issues are there? I may just be completely ignorant. I mean I've followed the trail for quite some time now, so I *think* I know, but what did I miss?

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12-24-2008 06:02 AM  8 years agoPost 216
patrickegan

rrKey Veteran

Sacramento, CA

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Tom, you know hiding’s not my bag I took the family to S.F.for the day. Deals to be had for sure.

Well, if nothing else some conversations have started. I think the numbers are a little low on how many operators are out there. It reminds me of the stat that there are only about 5000 non- AMA flyers are in the US.

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12-29-2008 02:49 AM  8 years agoPost 217
OffTheGround

rrNovice

USA

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Patrick, Patrick, Patrick.....You need to mind and tend to your own buisness not mine, you don't even know me!

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01-10-2009 02:25 AM  8 years agoPost 218
PlaneJames

rrNovice

Maryland

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Back to the question......

Patrick,

After reading many pages of text that pretty much covers any possible comment on any question other than what you had asked at first: "Any operators interested in developing an, Industry Code of Practice?"

I think that real and meaningful input is what you are asking for and not emotion or opinion. I would be willing to provide you one flyer's input. Call and we can discuss.

For the rest of you - Why don't you answer the question or leave it alone? Pretty simple isn't it?

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01-10-2009 03:46 AM  8 years agoPost 219
papatango

rrVeteran

Toronto, Ontario,​Canada

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For the rest of you - Why don't you answer the question or leave it alone? Pretty simple isn't it?
......because Mr. Egan, after getting not a single reply, changed the question to this:
So, you’ll be happy with whatever the government (that knows very little about what you do), comes up with, or just overwhelmed?
In saying "You'll", he made reference to all the persons who participate in the forum in which he posted; an assumption no less, which provoked stern response to an accusation. Ask and Ye shall receive....

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01-10-2009 04:00 AM  8 years agoPost 220
BigguyOz

rrKey Veteran

Forster, New South​Wales, Australia

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PT, I have seen more mature behaviour in the local pre-school. I was almost expecting you to tell us that you were going to hold your breath until we all went away.

Obviously Patrick still wants input regarding a standard industry code of practice. Let me guess why..

Maybe he is hoping that the grown-ups in the RC AP industry would rather these committees (which will go on whether or not Patrick attends them) had something to work with which came from the industry.

What is the alternative? Some public servant takes an SICOP submitted by a giant UAV player, and, keeping things nice and tidy, adds "s" in front of every mention of "UAV". And with a quick cut and paste the industry is stuck with horrendous procedures which only make sense when UAVss are run by a division in a large corporation. (Refer to Australia's CASA regulation 101 for an example)

OR

People could actually park their egos for a minute and work together to put together a reasonable SICOP.

Tony Stott

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